Chasing More Money is Like an Endless Death Spiral | Dan Crabill

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Paul Salter: Dan, I'm so fascinated by multiple aspects of your journey so far. In particular, you know, there's this young version of you who is starting, stopping, trying to figure out what is success? How do I define it? I'm gonna hop to this job, I'm gonna hop to the next. And then you find some success. And as you go out on your own and form that partnership, that new company, it takes a little time, like these wonderful things typically do. But over a five-year period of time, you double your income five consecutive years. And if my mathematical brain comes online, you basically 10x your business in a five-year time frame. I'm very curious, however. You're searching for something in those early stages, hopping from seven different jobs in a two and a half year time frame. What were you searching for?

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Dan Crabill: I think a lot of it was trying to find out who I am, you know, from a sales perspective at the time, right? Like, am I really a good sales guy? Like can I really do this, trying to prove to myself that hey, I am capable of doing this, right? Because let me tell you something. When I went through seven jobs in two and a half years and my wife got pregnant and we had a kid. So, you know, from that manhood instinct of I need to provide for my family, right? And I'm like, this isn't working. And we're like, I remember like we spilt like baby formula on the counter and we're like scraping it up because it's like it's like powdered gold, right? Like we have no money. I mean I mean, even literally our church had given us some groceries because I was like and paid our electric bill because I didn't know if I was gonna make it. You know? And you know, and unfortunately I was trying to be a recruiter during the dot com bust. So that was probably not the best time to be a recruiter. but you know, at the end of the day, ran into a a great business partner who was starting up his own company. He had one employee and he was like, We're in a small group together in church and he was like, dude, I think you have it, you're just in the wrong industry. So, you know, we went into that and I was like, all right, and I'm gonna give it one more shot. And I gotta give full credit to my wife, because she was like, I wanted to go corporate, and she was like, give this one more shot. And thank God I did. You know, cause we went into this, man. I remember showing up. I had a pair I had literally had two pairs of khakis with strings hanging off on the ends of The old yellow pit sweated white shirts, right?

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Dan Crabill: And I'm going, Lord, I just need to sell something. You know? And you know, things just progress and you know, became semi successful and then we launched Intelli Voice, which was our voice over RP platform, and we became partners in that. And listen, even two years into it, we didn't made a dime. Our re okay. Yeah, yeah.

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Paul Salter: Yeah, and Paul's there though. I want I want to time travel back still because I'm still fascinated. Seven jobs, two and a half years. Like, talk to me about like the internal conversations you were having to convince yourself to essentially chase one shiny object here, reverse course, chase another. Like what were you really hoping the next job was going to bring you?

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Dan Crabill: Listen, at at some point I think at that time to be honest with you, I was just kind of clueless. Like I I don't know. I I remember having stress over trying to provide. You know, I remember sitting on the curb with my now, so the last one before I went to to work with my business partner, this was kind of interesting. So we worked for a staffing firm, right? I I went a I went a cruise. I'm like, I'm doing good. So the here's the weird part is is twice, I think this is what got me through it. So before I went to the last staffing firm, I was with another one it was called romac and i was i was the recruiter of the year in december and february they fired me so i'm going what the heck is going on how do i go from being recruiter of the year to being fired right and a lot of it was just the economy and everything that was happening and then i went to this the other job Same type of thing. Dude, I want a cruise. Like they sent me on a cruise. Now I was only there for like six months and then they they say, Hey, we want you to start this Baltimore office. You're gonna be the recruiter with an outside salesperson. And and I remember my wife was the secretary there. Like we were together making like six figures, right? And at that time, this is twenty years ago, we're like, dude, this is incredible, right? And and then they come and just shut the office down. And I had even made a placement and I wasn't supposed to make a placement for ninety days when we had a placement. So those were some I I I

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Dan Crabill: I knew I had what it took. I just didn't know that I was in the wrong industry until someone pointed it out to me.

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Paul Salter: How are you defining success at that time?

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Dan Crabill: it was all about the money. The more money I made, the more successful it was. I I had So I grew up like middle income, right? We we didn't struggle, but we didn't have a lot of money. But I went to school with, you know, Arnold Palmer's nephew. I mean, everyone's my other friend's driving a Porsche, right? And I'm driving a little four-speed S10 pickup, you know? And so you know, I had this poster my wall that said, the one with the most toys wins. Right? So it was driven into me at a young age that success was defined by What you had and how much money you made. And that changes the older you get. Dude, it was that you I don't know if you remember this, I'm a little I might be a little older than you, but we'd have those book fairs we'd come through, and you could buy books and buy posters. And it was one of the posters that had a Lamborghini on it. I mean, I could see it my head, right? And and so I had it up on my wall because I was like, I like the Lamborghini, Lamborghini Kuntash is the exact model. And it was red.

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Paul Salter: Where'd you get that poster?

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Paul Salter: Yeah, yeah.

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Paul Salter: Did you know anybody in your neighborhood or the community at large growing up who had that external representation of success, the big the big house per se, all of the fancy cars? Yeah.

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Dan Crabill: yeah. I mean unless I went to school with Arnold Palmer's nephew. I mean so is that and then I played so I always hung out with

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Paul Salter: Yeah, see.

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Dan Crabill: You know that old saying everyone talks about, if you want to see your future, look at your friends. So everyone I hung out with was way older than me. Like I had a chiropractor at the time who had like four chiropractors underneath of him. And back then chiropractors weren't huge, right? But he was very successful. And I I had the American dream offered to me. I could have gone and be a chiropractor, he would have paid for my education. And I spent a lot of hours, a lot of days over his house just talking and we played tennis together. and I hung out with a son. And so, you know, I was around people who had a lot of money. I mean, he drove a Mercedes S series. I mean, it was so I hung around those people. So some of that was ingrained to me just because of people I hung about, but I was like, you know, the here's the other thing. If you if you want to get on to some where some of this rooted from was the first day of high school I was coming, I moved from West Virginia to Pennsylvania. Two totally different cultures. I had, I'll never forget this. I had this silk shirt on. With a bow tie that I got from Chess King. I don't know why I remember this, but I go to school that day, and right, and so very cowboy ish, right? And everybody there is preppy. So I just got made fun of the entire first day of school. And that was my first day of high school. So that kind of started, and towards the end, I was always kind of made fun of. but I always said, you know. I really thought to myself, like one day I'll make more money than all of you and you'll respect me for it because of it.

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Paul Salter: Mm. I hear, and I sincerely appreciate you sharing that, you formed a belief that day that I'm gonna prove it to you that I'm so much more than the person you're making me out be I making me out to be today, you know, making fun of me, the clothes I'm wearing, and I'm gonna do so by making as much money as possible to buy your respect, essentially.

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Dan Crabill: Yeah, pretty much. Like I'm you know, I'm gonna you know, as the old adage goes, you know, trying to keep up with the Joneses. And my wife my wife would tell you was I was trying to be the Joneses. So so yeah, that money drove me for many years. It drove me.

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Paul Salter: Hmm.

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Paul Salter: And what did you feel it would bring you, especially as you started to come into some money? Like what did you feel? What was the what was the core problem you hoped money would solve?

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Dan Crabill: I think it w I thought it would solve respect, right? I thought it would give me influence. and that became my identity.

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Paul Salter: What specifically became your identity?

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Dan Crabill: Money did. It was all about the money. Chasing it, chasing the dollar, like gotta make more money, gotta make more money. Right? Like, I'll put in the hours, gotta make more money. That's all all it's all really really came down to.

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Paul Salter: Chasing it. Mm.

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Paul Salter: And at what age do you think that r really came into full effect?

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Dan Crabill: That I thought I had arrived.

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Paul Salter: No, the th the the I guess when did you fully adopt the belief that like everything is money? I'm gonna make as much money as possible and all of your actions began to reflect that belief.

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Dan Crabill: Thirty. I started making six figures when I was like twenty-eight. And of course six figures back then was a lot of money. Nowadays not so much, right? But it's probably like making like a quarter million to three hundred thousand would be my guess, you know? today's dollars, you know.

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Paul Salter: Okay. Absolutely. A little different.

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Paul Salter: Okay.

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Dan Crabill: But then that's when things really started to take off for me. And actually I'm making twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty, seventy. I mean, you start making seven, eight thousand dollars a month, it goes to your head. but

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Paul Salter: And how so? Like expand upon that. Because I A, I agree, however, I've done this coaching thing long enough to know that everyone's experience is completely unique. Like tell us it went to your head. What that feel like? What it sound like?

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Dan Crabill: So at first it was awesome, you know, like I buy what I want when I want to buy it, right? Like I could do anything. I felt like I could do anything, right? But here's what I found out very quickly. when you look at people who climb Mount Everest, when you're at the top, there's nothing up there but some beer bottles, some flags, and you're only on top for like two minutes. So when you when you've I read the book called Everest, and they talk more about the adjourn than they ever talked about the mountaintop. Right. And I kept chasing the mountaintop. And what I found out was there's always someone bigger, better, has more money. You can never reach the summit. It's unreachable. Right. I guess maybe Elon Musk has done it. He's a trillionaire. But from a money perspective. But but you start looking at you know, I start seeing things at home deteriorate, you know, because I'm so focused. on making the money. I'm so focused on having the cars, having the houses, you know, buying the watches, you know, having the clothes. And listen, it felt good when dude someone at church needs five grand and you can just give them five grand and even think about it, right? So there's something to that, you know? Not saying that's not awesome, and not saying that that it's it's wrong to be able to do that, right? fortunately for me was the motive behind it. It was self-serving.

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Paul Salter: I think the clarity and the vulnerability and humility there is fantastic. Like you recognize the undercurrent fueling all of your actions was this drive to make as much money as possible because you thought it would buy respect. And it goes back to childhood. Those, you know, immature children, that's what children are, are bullying you, they're picking on you. I'll show them, I'll prove it. And the way you went to set out to prove it was to make as much money as possible. Talk to me then about some of the internal dialogue you had around enough. Was it a million dollars? Was it three cars? Was it three houses? Did you ever have any conversations about when it would finally be enough?

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Dan Crabill: No, because I kept talking, well, there's always a bigger house. There's always a nicer car. Right? So it's like this it's like this endless death spiral because you're killing everybody else around you that you that you love. And that's why I call it death spiral. You know? a little lipson to the to the family life was, you know, my my oldest son is high functioning autistic, right? So unfortunately, kids don't come with a manual, especially high-functioning autistic kids. Right? And we didn't have puzzle pieces back then. We didn't have, you know, nowadays they have all these different things for autism, right? Back then, there was it wasn't there. At one point in time, I'm spending $10,000 a month just to try to help him out. Right. And I and I thought, again, it's one of those things of I didn't know how to help him, so I was using money as my way of helping him. Right? so made a lot of mistakes growing up. I yelled at him, shouldn't have yelled at him. but I just didn't know. 'Cause you know, when I grew up, dad spoke you listened in the story, right? Well, that's not the way it works with autistic kids. You know, so there was that part. So there's lots of things that that are tough. You know, when you look back on things and you go, Man, shouldn't have done this, shouldn't have done that and the dollar doesn't help those things inside the family. you know, a and then looking at my wife and here's the other thing is like At one time I thought I was really all that in a bag of chips. Cause like I was on staff at a church helping start a ministry, wasn't charging them, you know, and I had a company on the side that was growing by twenty percent a year. It was crazy. and so, you know, I had this thing like, man, I'm killing it, right?

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Dan Crabill: And in reality, you know, my wife's a mess. She's just like dying for attention. The kids are dying for attention. And I'm thinking I'm killing it, right? hiding behind the pulpit per se, you know? but yeah.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Yeah. Did you and your wife have conversations about what I imagine her experience was disconnect distance and how your work was influencing your marriage?

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Dan Crabill: a hundred percent. There there's one time there forget North Carolina we come home and she's just crying on the floor. You know, she had a hard time with her son that with her son that day. She's like, You're not around, you're not emotionally supporting me. And it was it was a bad day, you know? and I think that started to wake me up a little bit, right? And that was right before I ended up leaving that job, moving to Texas. But it started to wake me up a little bit, that's for sure.

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Paul Salter: How'd you justify your behavior at that time? And behavior I mean just your commitment to work.

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Dan Crabill: do the Lord well first of all when you're on church staff I'm doing the Lord's work, right? So kinda hid behind that a little bit. and then I'm like you know, she used to say, you know, you know, raising a kid's tough and raising the children are tough and s I hate I can't believe I used to s I used to go, Well that's what you chose, right? I'm like, if you wanted a career, go get a career, right? But you chose to stay home, right? And it's pretty selfish of me to say that. But and hindsight's the best thing we ever did for her to stay home and raise the kids 'cause they've turned out to be amazing amazing kids. They love love Jesus and serve him and and so it's just incredible. But But yeah, but during those times, man, there were some rough years. That's for sure.

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Paul Salter: So it's interesting. You said when I was preparing for this call and we're going back and forth, and I'm getting to learn more about your story. You described one of, if not the hardest chapters of life so far as those first five years of marriage. You know, you're bouncing early on from seven different jobs in two and a half years. You welcome your first, you originally have no money, then you find that niche of alignment. Where and why did the struggle persist as long as it did between you and your wife?

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Dan Crabill: so it's well, first of all, there's two I'll I'll say this much while I go into this. I'll tell you couple stories. So I said there's two biggest things that's kept us married is one, well, first of all is Jesus. But number two, is gonna be we never mentioned the word divorce ever in our marriage. And then the other big thing is we dated each other every Friday night. And we had rules for that. Like we never talked bad about each other. It was all about edifying each other and just enjoying the night. Now we might be fighting the next day, but that night it was good. And I remember about first This is how bad it was. This story's kind of funny. We tell this a lot because we do some premarital counseling now. But we're about five years in, we're kind of coming out of it, right? Well, the first three, four years were they were they were hell. There's no other way to put this. It was just hell. I mean, all right, so I'll tell you I'll tell you two stories. So the the the first story is is like we get in this big fight, right? And my and we had a dog and a cat, and my wife is like, you care more about that dog than you. care for me. And so she like opens the door and the dog's name is Katie and she's like, run Katie, run. So the dog would run out, right? So then I'm going around going, where's your cat? I'm gonna throw your cat over the balcony. And I'm like doing my best Jack Nicholas imitation, going, Here kitty, kitty, kitty. Right

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Dan Crabill: So we find the dog, get the cat, make up, it's all good. But the second one is is about five years into it, she came into the kitchen and my son's sitting there and she goes, Listen, I need to tell you something. I'm like, all right, what is it, babe? She goes Now you know that I love you, right? And I go, Yeah, babe, I know you love me. And she goes, No, no, you need to understand that I love you. And I'm like, Uh-oh, like she had an affair, alcoholic, whatever, something, it's something big, right? And she goes, I'm like, babe, you just gotta tell me, 'cause I need to know. And she goes, Well, during the first couple years of marriage, I knew I couldn't divorce ya. So I used to daydream that you got killed in a car accident. And I start laughing. And she goes, This isn't funny. I go, I used to daydream the same thing. So we both wanted each other dead.

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Paul Salter: Hmm.

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Dan Crabill: It is crazy. But I totally forgot. What was the question now? I'm so sorry. I forgot what what you were asking.

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Paul Salter: No, I'm so I love the the organic moment. I'm curious, if you don't mind me probing one step further, what do you think you would have been escaping or avoiding should such a horrible accident occur?

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Dan Crabill: Yeah, yeah.

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Dan Crabill: Living with her. Like, I just couldn't stand her. Right? And she couldn't stand me. but the good news is we were both extremely stubborn and we had people around us. Like, that was key. I mean, our our our current our spiritual mother and father till this day our they're a mother and father and on the spiritual side, like we wore out their couch for years. And we just went to counseling and sat there. We eventually got to the point to where we were literally like, whatever they say is goes because we couldn't agree on anything. And so and that's the biggest thing I did is just get to went through that counseling. I'm a huge person for counselors, you know, they're there for a reason. Even later on in my life I went through depression counseling and and so we'll get into that later, but but I've been through that as well.

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Paul Salter: Tell me this then. So your marriage is off to a challenging start to say the least. And then you're now at a point in your journey where you're starting to have some success. But clearly, like the way I would I would communicate is you've got a fractured foundation that you're rapidly building one level of success on top of after the next tier. And do you think success, specifically financial success, created some of the struggles that were coming to light or simply exposed?

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Dan Crabill: Ha ha ha.

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Paul Salter: some of the areas you had neglected about yourself prior.

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Dan Crabill: it definitely exposed it. I mean, when you I mean, well, maybe a little bit of both, actually, because you know, when you get that financial success, people do start looking up to you from a world's point of view. You know, they'd start looking at the things you have, the clothes you wear, the card, and think, Well, you have it together. So back in that day, we would we would call it the Rockefeller effect, right? Like you'd see the Rockefeller painting, you didn't see the mess that made the painting, right? Nowadays we say it's the Facebook. Effect, right? You see all the great things about people, but their lives are a disaster behind it. Right? And and so so in some ways I could mask what was going on in my private side with the success of what I was doing in business, right? So, you know, when you have that and I'm at a young age and own the company and and being pretty successful, people are like, Wow, you're really doing things, right? And it sort of builds up your ego. Your ego's getting big, you know. and then you go home and your wife's not so sp beating up your ego, she sees you for what you are. Right. And so that ca that that because I was so immature I thought she was attacking me when she was trying to help me. Cause nowadays I can come in and she'll go, You know what? You might want to check yourself on this one. Right? And I can accept it now because I know what she she's she's looking out for me. Like she's my helper, right? So she's there and she's not afraid to bring me bring me down a peg or two if I need to be. And now I accept it. But back then I was I didn't realize what she was trying to do but to help me.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Yeah. Well, so it's interesting. You've the kind of the theme of the last, you know, chunk of conversation has been from the outside looking in, everything looks incredible in your life. But internally, you're dealing with stress, anxiety, a marriage that needs a lot of work. You inevitably experience a significant bout of depression. What was happening beneath the surface, beneath even maybe your wife's awareness that no one else could see?

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Dan Crabill: very easily like I'm not enough. I'm not good enough. I don't make enough money. you know, even being in church could put on a front. I'm a sales guy, I'm good at it. You know? It's funny 'cause when I talk to to talk to people and I start sharing stuff, they're like, Well you just seem like you have it all together. Right? And I'm like, even today I don't have it all together. It's it's there's always gonna be those demons that are coming after you, right? And so, you're always fighting those things internally and people it's like that onion, right? You start peeling back layers and layers of the onion and you really get down into it and at the end of the day we're all messed up, right? and we're all growing.

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Paul Salter: I love that. I mean, for you in particular, what I find interesting and I'm I'm curious to know, like, was there ever a moment where you realize that you had everything you said you wanted and you still didn't feel the way you expected?

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Dan Crabill: yeah, I never here's the thing, I never thought I had everything I wanted. Because listen, if you have it just doesn't stop, right? Like you said I had a BMW, great, now I have a Porsche, great. Now I have a Lamborghini, great. Well now, you know, I want the the biggest, baddest Lamborghini. Well now I a Rolls Royce Phantom, right? Well now I want a Bugatti. It just doesn't stop. And then you get the Bugatti and you're like, well, I want a custom, like there's a guy we know, like M19 has custom Broncos, right? Well, I want a custom Bronco, right? It never stops, right? And that's the lie the world feeds to you. Like, if you just get the next thing, you're gonna be fulfilled. You know, if you just get the next thing, because then you go, well, I have the two, three million dollar home. Well, now I want the lake home. Well, now I want a three billion dollar lake home. Home, right? well, I want a third home in Montana, right? I want a hunting lodge, right? It just doesn't stop, you know? And so, I think that's what the world really tries to do to you, and that's where a lot of people fall into those those traps when I look at you know, I I've looked at other entrepreneurs who have it and They're just miserable. Like they've lost their marriage over it. Right? They've lost their kids over it. You know? And I'm like, it's not worth it. Like when you go and you can't buy you can't buy your kids love. You can't buy your wife's love. Right?

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Paul Salter: Mm-hmm

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Dan Crabill: And when I look at like my kids, I bet you there's only about three things they would remember from let's see my oldest is twenty five, so twenty five Christmases. I bet you there's only three things they would even point out that I bought for Christmas. One was four wheelers, right? And we had fun because we created experiences. Number two, the ner the nerf guns we bought because we had Nerf fights in the house, right? So that's again, it's another experience. And the trampoline. But out of twenty five, they only remember three Christmases.

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Paul Salter: Hm.

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Dan Crabill: what I bought them. The rest of them run together. They don't remember what the heck they got, right? But if you ask what's their best thing they experienced with I was driving down the road with dad and the R V and bacon chocolate chip cookies. Like that was awesome, right? So the world wants to tell you you can buy it, but you can't. You can't buy those times and and now I'm real big on moments. Like my 15-year-old, well, even like my twenty-two and twenty-five-year-olds, if I get any chance whatsoever, if they ask me, they do I'm on it. I'm like, let's go. Like the other day I'm working in my 15-year-old's home in summer school. He's like, Hey dad, you want to play a game of ping pong? Well, the dad from 15

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Dan Crabill: 15 years ago, son, I'm too busy. Today's today's dad is let's go. Right? And I'll and I'm taking out 30 minutes of work to go down and play ping pong. Because those moments aren't going to be there. And really, it's not when they turn 18, it's when they turn 16 and start driving. That's when you really start losing your kids.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: Hmm. So those five years where it was just rapid success, growth on growth on growth. What do you most regret about what you did or didn't do specifically during that growth phase?

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Dan Crabill: Save money. Dude, I'm I'm I can make some money. I'm really good at making it. I'm horrible at saving it. So now it was now that I'm getting older, I'm like, yeah, I'm saving a lot more money these days, you know? And I wish I would have saved money, but you know, my my dad wasn't taught that. You know, I've got guys, I have guys who are finance managers and you know, they understand that, but nobody ever taught me it. I mean, everything I learned, I learned by myself. I was like the school of hard knocks. I didn't get to go to a Ivy League school. I went to a community college, got to play di I did get to play Division II. tennis all the way and got to play with Penn State. but but you know everything I learned I taught myself. so that's that's the big thing. So I wish I have someone would have talked to me and said dude you need to save your money. You know? It's working out but yeah I wish I would have saved more money.

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Paul Salter: Yeah, so what I hear is not only were you trying to make as much money as possible, you had to prove that you had as much money as possible through all of these purchases, presenting the wealthy lifestyle, if you will.

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Dan Crabill: Hundred percent. I can't tell you how much money I waste from cars. One time I had like five cars. I'm like, what are you doing? Like my wife was like, What are you doing? I thought buying one of whim. Like she was like, You're an idiot. Like what are you doing? You know?

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Paul Salter: One thing I've noticed is that the bigger businesses become and the more people you are responsible for, the heavier the emotional burden becomes to carry. Success doesn't just bring more opportunity and more income. It brings pressure, expectation, payroll, mouths to feed, families that depend on you. And I'm curious, as we kind of really fixate on now, you're leading this company with your business partner. You're growing quickly. At what point during that journey did it stop feeling exciting and start feeling heavy?

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Dan Crabill: Two years in. So the first year's kinda cool 'cause you're like, brand new company, it's awesome. We're rocking and rolling, right? We got in some young deals, right? And So we we closed some deals early and we sort of had momentum and then we had to hire an engineer and then we had to hire support people and then like crap, we need another office. we need another support person. And so we're like two years into this thing, and we're sitting there and me and Mark are looking at each other like dude, we're not making any money. Like our our payroll to ourselves was we took a trip to Pebble Beach. I think it cost us six grand. That was our our thing, like that's what we paid each other for the year. Like we could have been selling like we could have been a reseller like for Vonage or for Ring Central or any of those, right? And we could have very easily made a whole lot more money than we did in the first two years. That's for sure. But yeah that was that I remember us specifically we're in Vegas And we're in this hallway and we're looking at each other going, what did we do? We've got these employees, we've got payroll, we've got all these expenses, and we're not making any money. We're like, we could have just been rezoned for somebody and then made some pretty good money. Like what what did we do? Right? but then year three came along and we just started killing it. But you know, I I I did this YouTube video called The Grind. and I was like, the ones who grind it are the ones who make it. Right? And so that's that was key, and that was something we just said, you know what, we're gonna keep grinding this up. I remember us talking about like we're gonna give it one more year. Because we had to keep we had to pour money into the company again. I remember I was on vacation at Disney World and he called me and goes, Hey, I need 20 grand from you. And I'm like, What for? And he's like, We gotta meet payroll. And I'm like, Dear Lord, you

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: Hmm.

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Paul Salter: What'd that feel like? Having to put 20 grand in, not only just for your business, just to keep your employees' paychecks coming.

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Dan Crabill: it sucked, dude. It was like, what are we d again, it's just what we doing and then I'm stressed out for the rest of the trip and we're supposed to be having fun. Look, we're on the happiest place on earth, right? We're in Disney World. and and th that that that feeling of not being able to provide it's something I hadn't felt in many years because we're killing it, right? Like you know, it's funny is I remember when I first started with Mark and he was my business partner. And I remember gas got up to like two fifty or something like that. And I'm like, man, gas is expensive. And he just kinda looked at me. He goes, One day you won't even think about it. It'll just be something you do, right? And but at the time I was thinking about it. But, you know, now I didn't worry about it. But it's such a heavy thing because i the thing is it's just values families are counting on you to sell, to perform, because they need a paycheck. Right? And and you're invested in them. Right? You're invested in because you know they're kids. They've been to the Christmas parties, right? So like you know, like they're doing dance. In fact, Amy, who became our director, lived in my neighborhood. So I saw her every day. Outside of work. We drive I drive right past her house, you know? So it was it was interesting. That's for sure.

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Paul Salter: So when you think about carrying the burden of having to provide for other families, not just yours, not just your business partners, you think about riding the roller coaster that is entrepreneurship, the good months, the slow start, the rapid ascent. How did you cope numb or avoid or escape the inevitable emotions of anxiety, fear, overwhelm that are just part of the journey?

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Dan Crabill: Well, some of it was done through eating. I'm an emotional eater, you know? and it's been my Achilles heel for years, you know, trying to lose weight, trying to keep it under control 'cause when I'm happy I don't eat. When I'm sad I eat, right? so from a personal level, a lot of that bottled up inside and would come out as anger at home, come out as frustration at home. So that was rough on the family life, that's for sure. 'cause I would lash out because I'm worried at work about what's gonna happen. where about are we gonna make it? You know, where's the next deal coming from? So that that had a toll. That's for sure.

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Paul Salter: Describe that version of you. Take a couple adjectives or descriptors. Like how would if you are looking at that person, how do you describe him and his behavior during that period?

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Dan Crabill: I would say unpredictable. they never knew who they who was gonna come walking in the door that day. Was it the happy Dan? Was it the sad Dan, right? definitely depressed. because I was like I put all this energy and thought and hard work into it and were not going anywhere. think we should be going. and then I would also put in there

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Dan Crabill: agitated because everything bothered me.

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Paul Salter: What at what point did you stop taking care of yourself physically? I mean, what I heard you say earlier is you're this collegiate athlete. You're at least active more than most for a period of time. And now here you are, just agitated, on edge, bringing home the stress, fear, and worry and overwhelm from work to your home life. Like, were you taking care of yourself physically at that point?

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Dan Crabill: not really. You know, because I was too busy working, too busy trying to succeed, you know, to the world standards. so, you know, I just kinda let myself go. at one point I weighed three hundred and thirty seven pounds. and then I dropped a hundred. and since then I've gained about forty back and now I'm trying to work to get that other forty off. But But yeah, I when I got to three thirty seven, I was that was a little that was a big boy.

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Paul Salter: What was the tipping point at that time that finally led to changing behaviors to make your health matter now?

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Dan Crabill: perspective change, like do you want to be around for your kids? Right? You need to be healthier. You know, when you when you're getting winded walking upstairs, you're like, Hmm, this isn't good, you know? So those were those were some

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Paul Salter: Hm.

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Dan Crabill: Those I think those were the driving points where I was like, Okay, I I've gotta change something.

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Paul Salter: And then so if I heard you correctly too, during that period of time, really your two primary means of dealing with stress or the emotions at work were either one, pour yourself back into work and work more, hoping you could outwork and eventually solve the problem, or two, turning to food, correct?

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Dan Crabill: Absolutely. Yep. And listen when you're in minist when you're in ministry, man, dude, everything's around food. You know, it's just like we take someone out to eat, you know, we're gonna meet you for a coffee or we'll meet you for a donut, right? We call it a fellowship. You had to get out there and fellowship.

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Paul Salter: And then was there Yeah.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Were you ever role modeled from your parents a mentor or otherwise, like how important self care was, like under the umbrella of exercise, diet, stress management?

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Dan Crabill: Nope. It was never like, Hey, mom was like meat potatoes, finish your plate, you know. I mean, even my my original mentor, Larry Turner, was

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Dan Crabill: What a great guy, but he was severely overweight. And then he got cancer and he died because of it, kind of young. but I mean Larry was an amazing guy. He dude, he was literally like in a psych ward till he's 38. His wife read the Bible to him every day for a year, got out, started a roofing company at 40, grew up to a multi-million dollar roofing company in in Maryland. so it was an incredible story, and he was one of my first mentors. so no one really no one really brought up health back then those days. Like it was just not I mean there was a book out there called Body for Life that had somewhat of a reach, but that was about it, you know?

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Paul Salter: And it's interesting too, because you said earlier one of like my favorite words to discuss and dive into is that you more or less learn how to just grind it out. And you kind of said, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna paraphrase update if needed, but basically, like those who are successful know how to grind. So here, what I'm when I'm listening to you, I'm hearing there's just this very crystal clear belief that if I just work longer and work harder, success is destiny. And by the way, also fueling this grind to work harder is. I want as much money as possible to disprove to everybody who made fun of me and to earn their respect, right?

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Dan Crabill: Right.

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Paul Salter: How

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Dan Crabill: Here's the thing with grinding though, there's two parts to that. Now, as I'm older, there's two parts of grinding, right? So grinding, if you grind something, you can destroy something, right? Like you want to grind a lock off, you can destroy it. But if you use grinding right, it can sharpen. Right? If you need to sharpen your knife, you need to grind it, right? So there's a there's two parts of grinding now. Now at first I didn't realize that. It just I I did the first one, it just destroyed me. Now I let it sharpen me. Yeah, yeah. Now I'd

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Paul Salter: Yeah, you're running yourself into the ground.

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Dan Crabill: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: What did you miss out on as a result of being so committed to the grind and building your business?

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Dan Crabill: Family. Man, I forget those kids when they were little. what I would pay to go back to that time. If I could pay I'd pay any amount of money to go back when they were little and just have moments with them and play with them and I gave up a lot for that, unfortunately. you know, moments with my wife and you know, Dude, I remember she wanted to like dance in the street and I was like, No, babe, I'm gonna call. That was horrible. I'm like, you're a jerk. but you know, I remember I'd step out of church and take phone calls. and so like I was just constantly working. Yeah, my kids had nice things and they went to private schools and all that fun stuff, but at the end of the day they just wanna be with their dads. Now the good news is thank God I realized it before it was too late. and now I have a very good relationship with my kids. I'm pr really close with all all of my kids. it's amazing.

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Paul Salter: If you stay for a moment with that period of time where you wish you had more moments, you wish you chose and behaved differently, what was the story you were telling yourself that convinced you whatever work related task was happening was more important?

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Dan Crabill: I'm taking care of my family. I'm providing for my family. You know, like I'm the warrior. You know? Like I was sitting down with a guy. I know he's part of M19 too. We're sitting down there and we're talking, and I was actually having dinner with him and his wife, and he was asking me questions of Hey Dan, so what do you what do you not tell your wife and is there's things you keep from to protect her? And I was like I was like, dude, that's a lie from the devil. I said if you look back in medieval times when they'd get home, the wise would take care of their wounds. The wise would be one giving their dressings, you know, when they'd have cuts on their arms and everything. And I said, Your wife can handle a lot more than you give her credit for. They're to be your helpmate and they want to be there and help you. Don't shut them out. And I shut my wife out early in the years. I was like, and I just and that's where I'd keep it all inside of me and I'd I'd I'd hold it all up and then she get she'd like tell me what's wrong. I'm like, don't I've got this, right? 'Cause that's how I was I was reigned I was raised, you know, like the men are the warriors, right?

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Mm. Yeah. Yep.

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Dan Crabill: But the women are your helpmates. You know? So once I learned that I could, you know, trust her because of my own stupid self, now she's like, I do anything business wise, I run a buyer. 'Cause even though she's not technically have a business mind, women have that that intuition that men don't have, I think. that's just my personal opinion. and they have they can look at it from a different lens than what you're looking at it as.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Yeah. Yeah. It's like I hear it wasn't role modeled or it didn't ever feel safe to be vulnerable to ask for help and as a result you took on the brunt of it and inevitably you bottled, bottled, bottled until it had to come out some way.

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Dan Crabill: a hundred percent, you know, it's like I s just swooped everything under the rug. You know, like like I I'd want to get in a f like if we got in a fight, I'd be just like, All right, I'm done and walk away. It's over, it's fine, you know. Not that there got solved, nothing ever got resolved.

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Paul Salter: Did you ever feel, and this might seem like out of left field, I promise there's a connection I'll bring in a personal connection, even is like, and I'll start there. Like when I was married, like I'm divorced, my listeners know that. This was many years ago, but I was guilty of just like you. Like I say, I was emotionally constipated. I was, I was a victim of toxic positivity. Everything's always okay. Everything's good, babe. We don't need to talk about it. It's fine. Don't worry, I'll let it go. But the story I told myself about. why I couldn't be vulnerable and have conflict and disagreement in my marriage was because I needed to be as sharp and ready as possible for my business. And at the time, like I didn't actively admit it, but my business came first, even though I would shout to the rooftops, my marriage came first. There's a massive incongruency. So for you, did you ever have any thoughts around trying to minimize conflict in your marriage to help you be a better leader in the workplace?

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Dan Crabill: no, I think I got around conflict because When you're a sales guy, that's all you do is do conflict resolution. Right? Like, you know, you're always trying to sell somebody something, sometimes some things they don't want to buy. Now that was never my motto. I was always the opposite. I just kind of told the truth. Cause I remember sometimes I'd be like, you know what? I should be a better sales guy and tell you to buy this. But you really don't need this, right? And I used to say that a lot. And it was true. But I think for me was I was so tired of conflict resolution and getting stuff done and selling stuff that I just didn't want to talk about anything. I was like, I've had enough, like when I came home, I was like done. You know, I was just mentally drained. And so now what I did learn later on through a great coach, David Blanchard, he's amazing. he was like you you gotta learn how to de I never decompressed.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Dan Crabill: So now I played he goes, I want you to play golf. Every other Friday I want you to go play golf. And he goes, watch how your mood changes. He goes, You're not taking care of yourself. Right? And so, towards the end of us having the company, every Friday afternoon I golfed. And everybody knew not to put anything on my calendar because I needed to recharge. And then even if I go back, even the early years, we came up with a solution like when we had the two kids, I'd I'd come home and I had this lazy boy and I'd be like, I need fifteen minutes to decompress, babe, and then I'm all yours. And that changed the world, right? So we learned what each other needed. And then what I would do is I'd always put the kids to bed so she would decompress while I was putting the kids to bed.

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Paul Salter: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

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Dan Crabill: So we worked at it and just learning what each other needed was key. wa was huge because a lot of times we're like, Well, I need this, I need this and if you learn just to serve each other, it makes a world of difference. and now we're great. Like our marriage now is probably the best that's ever been. We've married for twenty nine years. and i it's amazing.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: Honesty, effective listening, effective communication, teamwork. That's what I hear in what you just described. I love that for you both.

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Dan Crabill: yeah, a hundred percent. And just knowing each other's love language. I don't know if you've ever read the five love languages, right? Knowing what that is is like I know hers is quality time and words of affirmation. Right? So you know, the best time, so it's funny, is mine are gifts. So like twice a year I get this. 'Cause she'll she'd rather just go to Target.

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Paul Salter: Mm-hmm. yeah.

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Paul Salter: Hm.

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Dan Crabill: Buy a shirt, wear it for three months and throw it away. Like, I'm like, I'll go and pay a hundred and fifty dollars for a shirt or two hundred and fifty dollars for a shirt, keep her for four years, right? And that's how I am. But so twice a year she likes to go shopping and that's like my best day ever, 'cause I get to go and buy her gifts. Now it's a little scary because I will not tell her no. Right? So she knows, like if she she goes, Should I get this? I'm like, Yes. You should get it.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: Huh.

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Dan Crabill: You know? So, I mean, she went back to work for the first time in twenty three years. because she was just like, I'm like all the kids are kinda grown. She's like, I have nothing to do. I'm bored out of my mind. So she goes, I'm gonna go back to work. And so we had to go clothes shopping for us and I was like, Need a new purse, babe? Yeah, I need a new purse. All let's go get you new purse. Right? And we just bought her all these clothes and so I was in I was in hog heaven. It was awesome.

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Paul Salter: St stay on your kids for one more moment for me. You mentioned you feel very grateful that you righted the ship sooner rather than later when it comes to realizing your kids are a priority. You knew it logically, but now you're gonna embody it, you're gonna be more present. What was the catalyst that truly fueled the behavior change to make your kids a priority and matter now?

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Dan Crabill: I think the key part that really woke me up is when my son was eighteen and suffering from severe depression. And we had gone to the therapist and he was in a bad spot at eighteen. And I'm like, I helped him get there. Cause I wasn't there paying attention. You know? I remember That we gave him a choice. was it 18 or 16? Yeah, I think he was he was either 17 or 18. We'd been going through counseling. And we had just gotten gotten to the point to where we were so frustrated, we didn't know what to do. We found this this camp up in Canada, right? And it was to help out kids with O C D, ADHD, you know, high functioning autistic. And we went to him and said, Listen, you can go to this camp in Canada for three months or I can put you in military school. Which one's it gonna be? Because right now our job as parents is to help you get along in society. And right now we feel we've done the best we can and we can't do it anymore. And so you need to go here. And so he chose to go to this camp in Canada. And when he left we had a lot of serious discussions and just watching him break down and getting back as counsel said he was suffering from severe depression. and we not realizing it. because he's really is a genius. I mean the kid's so freaking smart. I remember in we got a call, we had in private school and I took the ACTs and he's a freshman. And they called us up and go, Hey, we need to talk to you about Nick and I go, Yeah, and he goes, it's about his score. He goes, 'Cause he was getting some special help, right? In school because of because some of his disabilities. He goes, Well and I go, We couldn't find his name when I was looking for it. And I go, great, it was near the bottom, wasn't it? And they go, actually he was in the top ten in the

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Dan Crabill: the c in the hall of school. And he goes, your son knows things that he's never been taught. And I'm like, holy crap, the kid's a freaking genius. And they go, Yeah, he knows more than most seniors.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Dan Crabill: And so just realizing how smart he was, right? And so he'd be so bored in school he'd act up, right? And then we found out the fluorescent lights were bothering him because of his sensory integration disorder, right? So we had to pull him from school. So that kind of started the whole of of me realizing, A, how special he really is. He's super smart, super intelligent, and and then realizing about the other ones how like

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Mm-hmm.

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Dan Crabill: Like I can't have I I I've gotta be able to be there and live in the moments with them.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: I don't wanna put words in your mouth. I also just don't wanna misremember. Do you feel you had a you blamed do I hear that you feel you blamed yourself for some of your eldest son's challenges because you weren't as present and available as you thought you could have been?

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Dan Crabill: Hundred percent. Yeah. I was I looked at things I could have done more, I could have been there more, could have the list just goes on and on and on. Right? It just goes on from you know, I could have just been present more, you know? And yeah, that's hard as a father when you find yourself wanting, I guess, you know? So we're big movie people. I'm from the movie The First Night, you've been measured, you've been weighed, you've been found wanting. And that's how I looked at myself. Right? And I'm like, hey, I've been found wanting. I'm like, I could have been done so much more if I just would have been there. And but, you know, had to forgive myself and move on. I think that's the hardest thing to do as a person is to forgive yourself. It's yeah, I think it's easier to forgive other people than it is to forgive yourself. 'cause you can justify other people's actions, but it's hard to justify your own actions. Cause you can look at it. Like I always say, like I I can always see the good in people. Like I'm I'm pretty forgiving. And I've had people screw me pretty bad, and I'm like, all right, it is what it is. Right. And my wife's like, What do you mean? I'm like, Babe, at the end of the day it's she he's he or she's a good person. He just had a moment that he was weak. Right? And so but when you start judging yourself, you're a lot harder on yourself.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: I'm gonna shift us a little bit. You exit your company. What was the impetus for that decision? And what did you expect to feel after successfully exiting your company?

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Dan Crabill: Dude, I'm the man. Like I mean it dude, it was pretty nice to see the that money rolling your bank account. Like that was awesome. Like I'll never forget when it happened. I was golfing actually. 'cause we were waiting and we knew it was gonna happen that day. I was like, I am not you know, the kids are in school, right? I'm like, I'm not gonna sit around the house. I said I'm gonna drop myself insane. You know? And I'm like waiting waiting for it to happen because we had signed everything and then they're like, Hey, we need a couple more docs signed. So I'm like docusigning on the golf course. You know, I'm on the back nine and and then I see it come through and I'm like wow, like I've never seen so much money in my bank account. You know, this is amazing, right? I remember calling my business partner celebrating and I'm just like holy crap I just sold the company. So I think the euphoria lasted for two weeks. Just like holy crap I sold a company. Like we did it. Like we're in what the top three percent I think is what it is. Maybe maybe a little bit more, but I forget the I know there's a very low percentage of people can actually take a company from zero and turn it out and sell it. You know, have a successful exit. You know? I forget what it is. It could be three, maybe five percent of people can Actually, do it, but I'm like, wow, we did it, you know, and it was awesome for about two weeks, and then after that started settling in, like, crap, like the company's not mine. When you're used to driving into the office and it's your company, and then it's not, and I think what people don't explain to you, it's like your baby.

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Dan Crabill: You know, it's like taking your baby and giving it away and you no longer have control. It's a little scary. Then you're like, what's gonna happen to all my people? You know? And like, are they really gonna fulfill their promise? Which in our end they did, you know. I don't think we could have asked for a better sell of the company to a better company. so it went really well.

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Paul Salter: Tell me about you and your experience though, like those next couple of months, maybe the next couple of years. Like I hear massive loss of identity is in pro is in progress and an opportunity to build a new identity, step into a new chapter, of course. But take us through the emotional experience of that time. You've just exited successfully. You've had you've got more money in your bank account than you've ever seen before. And Dan was feeling what?

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Dan Crabill: I did it. Dan was on a high for about six months. Now unfortunately, COVID hit. So all these plans, I'd actually invested some money and some stuff that went down the toilet because of COVID. So we had all these things that I was gonna do and then you know y the biggest thing I would tell people you're just as a side note, when you sell your company, make sure you have plan B. And not that you have an idea of plan B plan B is up and working and making money. Because that was the biggest mistake I had. And it's taken me probably five years to figure out my plan B. I did some things I did some things that get that helped me get me by, but there were some rough years, man. It was I would I'm on the tail end of it. I'm kinda on the upswing right now and starting to make some good money again. But for a while there it was, especially with COVID, dude, that was brutal. So I went from a super high to coming down and being like, crap, what am I gonna do? Right? And then I would try something and it's doing good and it would fall apart in front of my face. And I'm like, what the heck, man? And you know, work for work for a friend of mine who had a software company and it just didn't work out. And like a fifteen year relationship was down the toilet. Like I don't even know why to this day.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Dan Crabill: Like I he won't even call me back. Like the last conversation I had with him was like, Listen, I don't think I can help you anymore and I don't want to take any more of your money 'cause he was paying me a salary. And I said, I don't take any more of your money and that was it. And I'm like, Dude, we've been friends for fifteen years and now this I'm like, I thought I was doing right by you. So I I don't know. So I've had things like that happen.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Dan Crabill: I went to work be CEO of a company for a little while for private equity. That was good for a season. But you know, you're trying to find your identity again and you're trying to rebuild it and you're trying to wonder, hey, did I just, you know, I had my one and done thing, you know? Like I did my one and done, I must be done, you know, and and so trying to figure those things out, it it's been an interesting road, that's for sure.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: How would you describe or define this current season of life?

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Dan Crabill: Where I'm at right now, rebuilding, you know? So you know, up until like last week I had someone leave for like a year and had a nice sale come through. and really rebuilding, you know, starting coaching. 'cause I've been coaching for years and just never charged for it. So now I'm kind of coaching. So everything's rebuilding. That'd be it's the best way where I'm at right now. refining who I am and realizing like for a while there and fifty really screwed with my head. I just turned fifty. And it really screwed with my head going, I thought I'm done and I'm going y i I don't I don't know why. but You know, I like, well I built the company up in eight years and sold it for millions of dollars. And now I know everything I know from that going forward, like I could do it a lot faster now. So I'm going, W what's your problem? You know, and it's just this I don't know, it's this ideology in my head and I think it's also this Realizing I'm on the like hole twelve of eighteen of life. Right? You're going, holy crap, you start reevaluating things. You start looking at things differently. Time is so valuable to you. When you're young and you're in your twenties, you think you have all the time in the world, right? But you start hitting the forties and you start going, Well Statistically speaking, then lived about 82. I'm starting the back nine. At fifty, I'm like, crap, I'm on the back nine. Right? And I and you start panicking a little bit. And then you realize like, dude, it's like you got plenty of time. Just slow down.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Dan Crabill: It's like get back to the basics is where I'm at, right? If you're rebuilding you get back to the basics. And I the biggest thing I would say the biggest mistake that I made in some of my company was I took my foot off the gas.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Dan Crabill: You know, I was like, I got money, I'm retired, kind of, you know, and and I took my foot off the gas. And that's what I tell these young people, whatever you do, don't take your foot off the gas. Just keep going. Cause it's when you have your foot on the gas and you're building, it's like you have that momentum because sales is all about momentum. Man, it's easy to keep going, right? When you take that foot off your gas, your car comes to a crawl and you're trying to get that thing going again. I'm a little older these days. You know?

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Dan Crabill: Like I'm not as I don't have as as much testosterone as I did back in the day, you know? But but yeah, that's that's the biggest thing I tell people. Keep your foot on the gas.

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Paul Salter: Give me a tangible example of what's a priority today at 50, this new chapter of life that absolutely wasn't a priority in your 30s.

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Dan Crabill: Moments with my kids. One hundred percent. Like and I tell a lot of young kids I mentor that I'm like, man, savor the moments. Every moment in life. You know, the the days are long, but the years are short. And I'm just like, every moment matters, whether it's work, like you close a deal, just savor the moment. Right? When I was young, closing the deal, I like, Yeah, let's get the next one. didn't take time to enjoy the moment, right? To enjoy what took place, you know. I'm big real I used to real I didn't used to be this way, but now I'm real big in the micro goals, micro rewards. You know, 'cause before you set a big goal and you have to wait till you hit it to celebrate it and meanwhile you're just dying. But when you have those micro goals, micro rewards, I mean, you can just refresh yourself, you know? So

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Paul Salter: Tell this. In a moment, we're going to shift to maybe my favorite segment of this conversation. But I think a lot of entrepreneurs, and this is just my experience, and you I imagine will agree. A lot of entrepreneurs spend years chasing something that they struggle to put into words . They think they're chasing money, girls, freedom, success. But it seems like you would agree that it's often something much deeper. So as you look back on your own journey, what were you chasing all those years?

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Dan Crabill: was chasing the wrong identity. I was chasing my identity was in the world. It wasn't in Christ. It wasn't in my family. And that would be the biggest thing I would tell people. It's like, make sure you're chasing the right thing. You know?

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Dan Crabill: You can't lose your soul in the process. If that makes sense. a hundred percent. One hundred percent. Lost my soul. You know, I think it took

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Paul Salter: Did you lose yours?

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Dan Crabill: It took God to hit me upside the head and for me to realize that A, he's he is my identity. I have to live my identity in Christ, right? But also that there's more way more things important than just money, things. you know, you can't take gold with you when you die. You know? And you know, we've never met anyone at their at their deathbed going, Man, I wish I would have closed one more deal. I wish I would have bought that house in Hawaii, you know? It's always about you go talk to anybody, they're always about, Man, I wish I could spend more time with my kids. You know? Like our pastor showed a picture was is great 'cause I could relate with him. He shows, This is a picture of our front yard. It's like nothing but dirt and two goalie posts where they used to go play soccer and he goes, This is what it looked like going up and he goes, Now here's a picture of it and it's all green and looks great and he goes, I'd pay any amount of money to have that dirt back playing with my kids in the front yard

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Dan Crabill: And it's true, I would give anything that I go back in time and and just spend more time with them when they were little and just hold and tell them they were loved and just do things differently. You know, so now I'm you know, I text my kids quite regularly, say, Hey man, proud of you. Hey man, you're amazing. You know, I do those things. I take those two minute moments and just praying for you today, buddy. So proud of you. all those types of things.

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Paul Salter: Hm.

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Paul Salter: I love that. I mean, as someone who I only have my son fifty percent of the time and something I've found that helps me connect with him, he's not even two, so it means nothing to him now. It will is I write him notes on index cards and I've got a massive container of just not daily, but multiple times a week when I'm not with him. I'm just writing him a little note or what's going on, what his new milestone is. So the fact that you're doing that and connecting with them, being present even if you're not physically with them and they are much older, like, yeah. It's really validating and I love to hear that. So thank you for sharing that.

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Dan Crabill: No, that's really awesome to do that for your kid. That'll that'll go so many ways, like when he gets older. Like i and it and he may not realize until he's eighteen or twenty, but to have those notes, like I wish I had you know, I've got things from my dad that mean so much to me, you know? so I think that's really cool.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Paul Salter: Yeah. So you mentioned real quick before we shift gears to another segment, if you will, is like you've mentioned your faith multiple times. You know, you're very active in the church, involved in the ministry, and you candidly acknowledge there were chapters of life where you hid behind your faith. You use kind of the excuse or justification, I'm doing the Lord's work. Yet you were also living incongruently, you sold your soul for success in your own words, for somebody listening. Who is guilty of using those same excuses and justifications, hiding behind this excuse, I'm doing the Lord's work so I can make shortcuts here or perform behaviors X, Y, and Z that are incongruent? What words of wisdom or advice would you offer him?

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Dan Crabill: Well, first of all, our God is a very loving God, a very graceful God, right? He just wants to spend time with him because you're his child, right? And so I would tell you that he never judges you and that he just loves you. and that at the end of the day, you know, scripture says, Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you. I take that very much to heart. 'Cause if I'm going after him and I'm following him, he's gonna take care of the rest. Now he doesn't say it's gonna be all sunshine and roses, right? He I wish it was, but What he does promise is he'll be there with you. He'll he'll stay there with you. He'll walk with you. It's no different, man. If your child does something, you're gonna love your child to no end. Right? I mean, there's stuff my child has done that's been pretty stupid, you know? But at the end of the day, I love him through it. You know? And if he comes back to me, I'm gonna open up loving arms and love him and give him a hug. And our heavenly father is the same way.

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Paul Salter: Well said. All right, so let's shift. This section of the show is loosely gonna be called the cost of success seven. I'm gonna ask you the same seven questions that I ask every guest I have the privilege of sitting down with. You ready?

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Dan Crabill: Okay.

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Dan Crabill: I'm ready, let's rock and roll, baby.

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Paul Salter: What did success give you that you expected?

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Dan Crabill: it gave me a sense of accomplishment. You know, because it's very you sell a deal, you get money, right? You get money, you get the buy stings. So it gave me a sense of accomplishment, you know, which is awesome. It does listen, as much as we talk about how the money kind of in some ways destroyed some parts of me, you know. as my old CPA used to say, money will not fix all your problems, but it sure does help.

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Paul Salter: Do you believe that you fully learned to enjoy all the success you achieved?

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Dan Crabill: Nope. I took a lot of things for granted and you beat yourself up as dude, I I'd be honest with you, is it three years ago or four years ago? Like I made one year, I only made eighty thousand dollars like four years ago. And that hurt. I was like, I have to go back 30 years since the last time I only made 80 grand. I was like, what happened? Do you know? Well, now I have money and savings and stuff like that, you know, but but I was like, what in the world? It it's a very humbling experience, that's for sure.

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Paul Salter: So when will you ever give yourself permission to enjoy it?

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Dan Crabill: I still struggle with that. I wish I could say I I I wish I could say I've totally you know, no, my identity's fully wrapped up in Christ and you know, I wish I could sit here and tell you that all those all those lessons that I've learned and I teach that I've that that I've arrived and I haven't arrived and you know, I think they show up in different ways right now, you know? But I think some are still there and still gotta battle through them, you know, it's just like well, I I've never been an alcoholic, but I think they always say that you're never really not an You where they say you're just still you're just not drinking or something. I forget what they say. Like an I know an alcoholic mom so they have that thing, like you're never really not an alcoholic or I forget what it is, but that's how I kinda feel like with you know, my the success stuff. I don't know if I'll ever really until the day I die and go to heaven. I don't think I'll ever fully be out of it. I'll think there will always be that struggle.

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Paul Salter: What didn't success give you that you thought it would?

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Dan Crabill: Peace.

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Dan Crabill: It didn't give me peace. I thought that hey if you make this money you have peace. If you did this you had peace. You know, at one point I was like, Man, if I could buy this for her, you know, that would make everything better. You know? So it didn't give me peace.

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Paul Salter: Did more success take you further away from the piece you sought?

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Dan Crabill: I think my my I don't I don't think it took me away from it as much as my drive to have my identity wrapped up in it took me away from it. And I explained that a little bit to where I thought, well, If I can have just a little bit bigger house, if I could have a house with more acreage, right? that I would be complacent. I would be happy. And that's not the case. You know? It's just a bigger house. It's just a nicer car. That's all it is. You know?

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Paul Salter: What did success cost you?

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Dan Crabill: Mm, success cost me

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Dan Crabill: Man, there's so many different things it costs me. Trying to think of if I put a word on it.

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Dan Crabill: Success cost me time. I lost time to be with my family, to be with my kids. That's what success costs me. And you can't buy more time.

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Paul Salter: How has it Yeah. Hmm. How has your definition of success changed compared to when you first started versus today?

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Dan Crabill: Yeah, I mean back in the day success was like, hey, the more money you make, the more toys you can have, right? It's like that's what it was. That was just like, How do you make more money? Success to me right now is is my wife happy? Do we have peace in the family household, right?

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Dan Crabill: Or do my kids feel loved by their father? That's success.

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Paul Salter: Looking back, what made the costs that you just shared, the costs of success worth paying at the time?

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Dan Crabill: I didn't realize the value of time.

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Dan Crabill: Time had a different value to me back then. Like I said, when you're in your thirties and forties, man, you think you have all the time in the world. Like I'll have time to play with my kids. I'll have time to love one of them. I'll have it'll come. I just think I'll make a little bit more money, a little bit more money, a little I just gotta get this thing, just gotta get this thing. You know?

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Paul Salter: As you look ahead, what are you doing to make sure success no longer costs you what matters most?

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Dan Crabill: I think I said before is like enjoying the moments. Like living in the moment, being present, you know?

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Paul Salter: Yeah.

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Dan Crabill: Not exchanging money for time.

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Paul Salter: Hmm.

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Dan Crabill: There's a time to make money, right? But there's time to be present with your family.

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Paul Salter: And I found and I think you found in this new season of life, the more present you are with your family, the better you feel, the better you feel, the more opportunity you have to make more money.

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Dan Crabill: Well, sure, and I think also is when you have that peace and you have you have that understanding of your family's taken care of, it frees you up. You know, you can think more clear, you can be present.

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Paul Salter: And I have to ask as I wrap up our conversation together, if you could sit down with the version of yourself who had that poster in his room that read the one with the most toys win. What would you want him to understand?

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Dan Crabill: It's a lie. That really what it's doing from you is stealing time for what matters most. And that no matter how much money you have, no matter what cars you have, no matter what house you have, your kids really don't care. They just want to be with you. Your wife just wants to be with you. And they want you to be present. So that's that's what I would tell. my younger self is be present and then enjoy the moments. Like I would also I I would tell them I would tell myself that your wife loves you for who you are not what you have.

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Paul Salter: Mm.

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Paul Salter: Dan, thank you for your vulnerability, your honesty, your courage, your insight today.

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Dan Crabill: Man, it was so awesome to sit here and you know, hopefully we help some other young entrepreneurs don't make the same mistakes that I did, you know? And I know other people on the show can share that and that they can learn from us. because, you know, anyone I'm into, I'm like, please learn from my mistakes.

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Paul Salter: That's why we do the show. Thank you so much.

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Dan Crabill: All right. Thanks, Paul. I appreciate you.