Sept. 20, 2026

Everyone Thought I Was Winning. I Was Quietly Falling Apart | Kris Basmagy

Spotify

Key Takeaways

Childhood experiences of loss can force a child into hyper-independence, leading them to use performance as a coping mechanism for missing attention and emotional connection.
The relentless, high-pressure operating system developed in competitive sports often translates into the corporate world, causing founders and executives to treat every situation like an emergency.
External metrics of success like an eight-figure business, money, and status cannot silence underlying feelings of unworthiness or heal deep emotional wounds.
Substance abuse and partying are frequently used by high achievers as temporary escape mechanisms to silence inescapable thoughts and chronic anxiety.
True healing begins when successful professionals drop their armor, embrace vulnerability, and realize that asking for help is a strength rather than a weakness.

Show Notes
Transcript

From the outside, Kris was winning: an eight-figure business, more than 100 employees, a growing family, financial success, and people constantly telling him how well he was doing.

Behind closed doors, he was battling crippling anxiety, depression, substance abuse, panic attacks, and a relentless belief that no matter how much he accomplished, he still wasn't enough.

In this deeply vulnerable conversation, Kris shares how the same competitive operating system that helped him succeed nearly cost him the life he had worked so hard to build—and what finally happened when he stopped trying to outrun himself.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

How childhood loss taught Kris to become fiercely independent and use performance as a way to receive the attention and connection he was missing.
Why the relentless mentality that made him an elite baseball player followed him into his career—and eventually taught him to treat everything like an emergency.
How the belief “I am not enough” can become fuel for extraordinary achievement while quietly making every accomplishment feel insufficient.
What Kris’s life actually looked like behind the trips, money, growing business, family, and appearance that he was “killing it.”
Why alcohol, partying, and other substances became less about having fun and more about temporarily silencing the thoughts he couldn't escape.
What happened when Kris finally reached a breaking point—and discovered that vulnerability and asking for help weren't weaknesses.
Why success didn't give Kris the peace he expected, and how he's learning to pursue ambition without sacrificing presence, his family, or himself in the process.

Key Time Stamps:

04:24: The childhood loss that changed how I experienced the world
12:25: I became obsessed with being the best—and stopped enjoying the thing I loved most
16:59: Baseball ended, but the operating system driving me never did
26:23: Why I unknowingly started treating everything in my life like an emergency
30:14: The belief underneath my ambition that no amount of achievement could silence
33:45: I was building an eight-figure business while quietly falling apart
36:39: Twenty years of emotions finally came out on this staircase
39:06: Everyone thought I was living the dream—they had no idea what was happening behind closed doors
43:27: What I was really trying to escape every time I drank or used drugs
46:29: My wife picked up my phone—and discovered how bad things had actually become
56:32: I finally built a business that didn't need me—and that's when things got worse
1:01:18: Money, success, a family—and me alone in Manhattan at 3 A.M.
1:05:53: I finally told 15 strangers the secret I'd spent years hiding
1:25:22: Success didn't give me peace—it amplified everything I'd spent years avoiding
1:27:23: What success cost me that I can never get back

I help founders, CEOs, and ambitious professionals overcome the hidden psychological and emotional costs of success so they can build a life that feels as successful as it looks—and make what matters most matter now.

APPLY FOR 1-1 PRIVATE COACHING

If you’ve built a successful life but recognize that the way you’ve achieved it is beginning to cost you—your relationships, health, peace of mind, or ability to be present—it may be time to do the work beneath the work.

Click here to apply for private 1:1 coaching and learn how to pursue success without sacrificing what matters most.

HAVE A STORY WORTH SHARING?

If you’ve achieved meaningful success but discovered that it came with sacrifices, struggles, or lessons rarely talked about publicly, your story may belong on The Cost of Success.

Reach out to share your story and explore the possibility of joining me for a conversation: paul@thecostofsuccess.com.

CONNECT ON SOCIAL MEDIA

Watch on YouTube: @thecostofsuccesspodcast

Follow Paul on Instagram: @thepaulsalter

Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thecostofsuccesspodcast

Connect with Paul on LinkedIn: @paul-salter-coaching

JOIN PAUL IN THE M19 BUSINESS GOLF MASTERMIND

Click here to apply.

Tell them Paul sent you.

Frequently Asked Questions

Who is Kris Basmagy?

Kris Basmagy is an entrepreneur who built an eight-figure business with over 100 employees, but behind closed doors, he quietly battled crippling anxiety, depression, and substance abuse while chasing traditional measures of success.

Who hosts The Cost of Success podcast?

The Cost of Success is hosted by high-performance mindset coach and credentialed hypnotherapist Paul Salter, who explores the hidden psychological, emotional, and relational costs of achievement.

How does childhood loss impact adult ambition?

Early childhood loss can lead individuals to develop fierce independence and use achievement and high performance as subconscious tools to earn attention, validation, and control when their environment feels unstable.

Why do high-performing athletes struggle when sports end?

High-performing athletes often experience a severe identity crisis when their athletic careers end because their competitive operating system simply transfers to a new scoreboard, continuing the relentless cycle of tying self-worth to external achievements.

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.000
Paul Salter (00:01.955)

00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:02.000
Kris, before you became an entrepreneur, you were a high-performing athlete. And something

00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:03.000
that you said about baseball really stood out to me. You were trained to approach every day like

00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:04.000
someone was trying to take your job and to perform when other people were depending on you.

00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:05.000
What did disappointing other people mean to you back then?

00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:06.000
Kris Basmagy (00:28.194)

00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:07.000
Back then, disappointing those people meant like I wasn't doing my job. that things were gonna

00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:08.000
fall apart, that

00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:09.000
I needed to kind of be like that that rock for everybody in that picture. Like if I wasn't operating

00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:10.000
on all cylinders, then, you know, everybody else wasn't gonna be able to operate to their their

00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:11.000
best capacity. So I put a lot of that pressure on my back during that period of my life just to kind

00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:12.000
of take it upon myself to make sure that everything like I was operating at my highest capacity

00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:13.000
so that you know, everybody could could do their own as well.

00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:14.000
Paul Salter (01:02.297)

00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:15.000
Did somebody teach you that or did you learn it indirectly?

00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:16.000
Kris Basmagy (01:06.026)

00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:17.000
I I I learned it indirectly. I it was it was ingrained in me after the fact by just like the the coaches

00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:18.000
that I had and the mentors that I had. But very early in my life I was very independent. there

00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.000
were a lot of things that happened in my family in the past, the early deaths and like dealing with

00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:20.000
that super early. And it always made me like a very like independent person where I like I have

00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:21.000
to take control of my own situation.

00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:22.000
so that obviously just like spilled over into all the other aspects of my life. And then I just

00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:23.000
naturally started gravitating towards leadership roles. I always found myself as the person that

00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:24.000
everybody was kind of looking towards.

00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:25.000
Paul Salter (01:47.342)

00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:26.000
When you say independent and you allude to some challenges, familial deaths, I hear you had

00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:27.000
to take on the responsibilities of an adult as a child to some extent. And I'm curious, take us into

00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:28.000
one of those moments where you began to make that shift, knowingly or not, to becoming an

00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:29.000
adult while still a teenager or an adolescent.

00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:30.000
Kris Basmagy (02:07.926)

00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:31.000
Yeah, so I mean the first one was pretty pretty, pretty early. So and it's it'll feed into everything

00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:32.000
that we're about to talk about as well. so my uncle, so my my my my mom's brother, which we

00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.000
was very close to, passed away very suddenly in his forties from a massive heart attack. And at

00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:34.000
the time I was

00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:35.000
Can't even remember how old I was because that whole area turns into a blur. But I think I was,

00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:36.000
I think it was like first or second grade, something like that. And I remember, like I can close my

00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:37.000
eyes right now and I can remember like the moment where it all happened when like at this time

00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:38.000
the house phone rang and my parents answered it. And then suddenly, like they're in a rush to

00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:39.000
get out of the house. My grandma who lived with us at the time, she was we had like a

00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.000
mother-daughter.

00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:41.000
And then she's watching us. Then my parents are gone for like two or three days. I'm like, what

00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:42.000
the heck is going on? And then we found out about it. And it was he was my dad's best friend.

00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:43.000
He was my mom's obviously, you know, really close brother. Like my my dad and him did

00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:44.000
everything together. he was really close to my mom. And I watched them change us people in

00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.000
like second grade. Like I watched like depression start happening, I watched

00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.000
then become just different people, like very closed off, like not very social. and you could just

00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:47.000
feel it like I could just feel like a shift. And I I I I always like like I said, I can I can see that

00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:48.000
moment in my head. And you know, obviously they weren't as present, right? Because they're

00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.000
dealing with that. And when you start to see this shift, you're just like, like my parents aren't

00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:50.000
just gonna be like this backbone for me. Like I like I have some s I have some emotional needs

00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:51.000
right now. I have needs as like, you know, it's most formative period of my life and, you know,

00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:52.000
they're distracted. So it's it started then.

00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:53.000
Paul Salter (04:11.513)

00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:54.000
Well, take us in. What was that experience like for a six, seven-year-old boy to have the

00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:55.000
awareness to recognize my parents aren't who they used to be? Something is profoundly

00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:56.000
different after such a grave loss.

00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:57.000
Kris Basmagy (04:24.704)

00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:58.000
Yeah, it was it was honestly it was scary. it scared me because I didn't ever think of like death or

00:00:58.000 --> 00:00:59.000
anything. Like, you know, you I grew up a real like really good life. I I'll never say like like my

00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:00.000
parents provided for me. We lived in a great house in a great area, we had a great family.

00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:01.000
And it all just like it was like, why, why doesn't this exist in me? Like, what is going on? I don't

00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:02.000
understand this. And I remember like all these moments are so vivid for me. I remember being

00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:03.000
in my backyard and experiencing anxiety around my own mortality at that age. And that was like

00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:04.000
so, so, so, so heavy for me.

00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:05.000
And my mindset started changing. Like it it like it sounds so crazy because like I have little kids

00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:06.000
myself, like I have almost three year old and a ten month old and I can't ever I can't ever

00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:07.000
imagine them having to experience that. But then like I put myself in my sh in the shoes of me

00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:08.000
back then. I'm like, wow, that was that was a lot. and I know I didn't have anybody talk to about

00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:09.000
it. My parents were going through their own things. So I just started I guess developing coping

00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:10.000
mechanisms essentially to to kind of get through that period.

00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:11.000
which helped me a ton. Like my my my life started like really like I've was like super focused on

00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:12.000
like certain things. Like I like you said, I was an athlete, I played baseball. I got really into it. I

00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:13.000
became very socially withdrawn for certain things. I was just more focused on myself and like

00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:14.000
almost going into like this, like a lot of people in like their twenties, they go into like

00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:15.000
self improvement and stuff. I was doing that at a very early age 'cause I was just so focused on

00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:16.000
myself and I I I had experienced this really strange thing that I really couldn't wrap my head

00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:17.000
around at the time.

00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:18.000
Paul Salter (06:13.529)

00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:19.000
So, what I'm hearing is you have this incredibly anxious experience, questioning and trying to

00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:20.000
grapple around your own mortality and please fill in the gaps here. But the shift is to start to pour

00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:21.000
into, let's call it overarching theme of self-development. Behaviorally, you focused on yourself.

00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:22.000
You're a bit more socially withdrawn. You pour yourself into the love of baseball. What did

00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:23.000
pouring yourself into baseball in particular, what did that help you accomplish in terms of

00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:24.000
maintaining a connection with your parents?

00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:25.000
Kris Basmagy (06:45.294)

00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:26.000
So I hate saying it like this because it's just how I am, but like I was so focused on it that I

00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:27.000
became like the guy in my area, right? Like everybody knew like I was the baseball player, I was

00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:28.000
supposed to do something. And my dad was my coach. And my dad was like super, super

00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:29.000
proud of that. Like

00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:30.000
Like and just like really grabbed onto it. And he saw like I had like this drive. Like everybody was

00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:31.000
like, I don't under like he I wish my kid had your son's work F. Like like I don't understand how

00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:32.000
he he trains the way that he does. And I just did. And it was like this

00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:33.000
Paul Salter (07:19.651)

00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:34.000
Put words to that real quick. What drove you? If you could put it into a couple of words.

00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:35.000
Kris Basmagy (07:27.372)

00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:36.000
I really liked the attention I was getting. I really liked being like the go to guy. I liked the fact that

00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:37.000
like and I and I I I pitched, I threw very hard, like it it it it was

00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:38.000
It was like I I just enjoyed like kind of just like being the guy on the team where like they put me

00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:39.000
in like the end of the game and I would like blow it out or like we would need runs that would hit

00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:40.000
a big home run or something like that. Like I just it was just like great. And like I remember

00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:41.000
Being like in elementary school and like my phys ed teacher, she like was like she was scared

00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:42.000
to let me play dodgeball because she thought I was gonna knock somebody's head off because

00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:43.000
I was throwing the ball so hard. And she would even say, like, I can't wait for the day where you

00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:44.000
go and do this and all these great things in athletics and stuff like that. And like the attention was

00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:45.000
great because I wasn't getting the attention at home because there were so many other things

00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:46.000
that were going on. And like the thing that I mentioned with my uncle, like that was just the first,

00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:47.000
like, not too much l later.

00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:48.000
My dad's actual best friend was in a car accident and died and rolled it over. Like, not not even I

00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:49.000
don't even think it was two years later. so like there was just like this, like all these things were

00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:50.000
happening. I was super young. I I my parents were like, they loved me to death, but like I can't

00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:51.000
even imagine being my age now, which is the age that they were, and dealing with all that and

00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:52.000
raising kids and you know.

00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:53.000
Living life.

00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:54.000
Paul Salter (08:58.313)

00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.000
Yeah. So performance was how you got attention. It compensated for the lack of attention that

00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:56.000
was kind of the default being given at home after these traumatic events. And with that

00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:57.000
attention, I'm also hearing almost that attention became synonymous with expectation, the

00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:58.000
heaviness of pressure. People are starting to allude to your future, how great you can possibly

00:01:58.000 --> 00:01:59.000
be because of the intangibles as well as the tangible skills.

00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:00.000
What was that like the expectation and talk of your future at such a young age?

00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.000
Kris Basmagy (09:32.079)

00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:02.000
it was one of the best things for me and one of the worst things for me. Because it's like when

00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:03.000
somebody doesn't realize their true potential, nobody ever tells them and they just need like kind

00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:04.000
of that person to give them the hand up. I got the hand up, I got the praise, I got the push

00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:05.000
forward super early. So I was like, wow, I am capable of this. So it gave me the confidence to

00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:06.000
continue doing it, but

00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:07.000
sure we'll get into this in the conversation later. It also became like my worst nightmare as I got

00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:08.000
into the, you know, later stages of life as well. So

00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:09.000
Paul Salter (10:04.355)

00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:10.000
Well, even as a teen, I'm curious, where in hindsight do you think it started to kind of toe the line

00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:11.000
of being destructive?

00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:12.000
Kris Basmagy (10:11.926)

00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:13.000
High school. Hundred percent high school.

00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:14.000
It was like I I started to get very much and like at the in the moment I didn't I didn't feel it or see

00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:15.000
it, but now in hindsight looking back, of course hindsight is 2020. I got very what's the word I'm

00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:16.000
looking for? I just felt like it was owed to me, right? And I always played with like a chip on my

00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:17.000
shoulder. And some people like that.

00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:18.000
And some people didn't like that. A lot of people didn't like that. I also always gravitated towards

00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:19.000
coaches that were more of like that hard nose style, like old school baseball, like mil kinda like

00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:20.000
almost like that militant style discipline. my my the travel team that I played on,

00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:21.000
We had t-shirts and we were like, you know, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen years old. And on the

00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:22.000
back of our t shirts that we wore under our jerseys it said, shut up and play. Like that was the

00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:23.000
environment that I was operating under.

00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:24.000
And it became like a personality trait for me. I liked it. Like we were like, you know, we were

00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:25.000
those people. We would roll in, we were very disciplined. We were just like straight to the point.

00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:26.000
And we would just come in very professional at a very young age, and win. Like we would travel

00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:27.000
all over the country, all these AAU tournaments, Woodbat Nationals, this, that, whatever. And

00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:28.000
we were like 13, 14, like celebrities amongst like the travel baseball community in our state in

00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:29.000
New Jersey. So it was

00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:30.000
Kris Basmagy (11:49.026)

00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:31.000
You know, you'll see there's a common theme I keep finding myself in this in this these

00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:32.000
situations as I go into other things.

00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:33.000
Paul Salter (11:53.208)

00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:34.000
Yeah.

00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:35.000
So you're committed to maximizing performance, committed to making the most of every

00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:36.000
opportunity. Secondarily or unknowingly, it's getting you the attention you were missing at home.

00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:37.000
So you're finding pleasure in being disciplined, outworking everybody. And I believe the word

00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:38.000
you might have been looking for earlier is you developed as a result a sense of entitlement.

00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:39.000
Okay. So I'm curious for that 17-year-old boy, what happened emotionally when you didn't

00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:40.000
perform?

00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:41.000
Kris Basmagy (12:16.718)

00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:42.000
Entitlement, yes.

00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:43.000
Kris Basmagy (12:25.606)

00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:44.000
Anger, depression, anxiety. and it would turn into like these like like these episodes of like the

00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.000
yips almost where I would just like totally lose confidence and then I would go on like this, like it

00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:46.000
was like I forgot how to even play, or I forgot how to do very simple things.

00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:47.000
And it was because I was getting it in my head so much. I wasn't enjoying it. Like I I I say like I

00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:48.000
was enjoying it in the mo I was not enjoying it. Like I was, it was just like chasing this thing. And

00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:49.000
unless I got the thing, I didn't feel good. Like I I I think back on a lot of those moments back

00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:50.000
then, I was playing in these really high level tournaments and doing all these different things and

00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:51.000
like

00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:52.000
I don't even remember half the stuff, right? 'Cause I wasn't I felt like I wasn't even experiencing

00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:53.000
it. I was just so focused on this one thing. that like I just never like lived it really, to be honest

00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:54.000
with you. It like feels like a blur.

00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:55.000
Paul Salter (13:29.113)

00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:56.000
Put a word to the one thing, like what explicitly was that teenage boy chasing?

00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:57.000
Kris Basmagy (13:34.521)

00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:58.000
To be the best in the room, like bar none. Like it doesn't matter who it was. Like we would go

00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:59.000
down, I I remember playing down in the the USA baseball complex down in Carrie, North

00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:00.000
Carolina. And this this was I'll give you an insight into the mindset. So I'm pitching, and the one

00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:01.000
of the kids on the other team was the number one recruit in my class. His name is Lance

00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:02.000
McCullers Jr. If you're a major league baseball follower, you probably know his name, played for

00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:03.000
the Astros.

00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:04.000
And we would constantly find ourselves competing against each other. And he was getting all

00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:05.000
the attention he's down in Florida. He's the shortstop that would come in through like 95 miles

00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:06.000
an hour. And like I would go into the offseason and like, I'm gonna beat this kid. I'm gonna work

00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:07.000
so hard that I'm gonna be the one that gets all that attention. And that ended up into Tommy

00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:08.000
John surgery at 17 years old and totally threw everything off of track.

00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:09.000
Paul Salter (14:27.063)

00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:10.000
Was there ever a version of you that believed resting meant someone else was getting ahead?

00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:11.000
Kris Basmagy (14:33.41)

00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:12.000
Yeah. That's the reason I injured myself. I was always the person, like the coach would come in,

00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:13.000
like, you gotta come out. I'm like, nope, not coming out. Absolutely not. And like literally my arm

00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:14.000
would feel like it's about to fall off. And this is before pitch counts must have been like 120, 130

00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:15.000
pitches. I'm like, you're not taking me out. It's a championship game. What you talking about?

00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:16.000
And

00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:17.000
You know, I they would take this is the craziest part now that I like I watch coaches these days in

00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:18.000
baseball development. They would take me out from pitching. I would throw like six, seven

00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:19.000
innings, whatever, and they go stick me at third base. Then I'm making the longest throw in the

00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:20.000
infield after throwing six innings, 130 pitches. And not only that is we had an opening every once

00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:21.000
in a while at catcher, and they would throw me in, I would catch. Because like again, it's like the

00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:22.000
same thing. Like, you need me here, I'm gonna be the best here. You need me here, I'm gonna

00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:23.000
be the best here. And I'm not gonna say no because

00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:24.000
Paul Salter (15:19.438)

00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:25.000
Yeah.

00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:26.000
Kris Basmagy (15:22.02)

00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:27.000
I want to do everything I possibly can to win. And it was like my destruction. I played I my my

00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:28.000
wife and I laugh all the time because she's like she's a big baseball fan too. And

00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:29.000
We're watching it and I'll start like I I I'll watch a baseball game. I'll get very analytical because I

00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:30.000
just would played it at a high level. And I'll talk I'll talk about how hard it is to play like right field.

00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:31.000
She's like, I thought you were a pitcher. I was like, no, I played right field at some point. I played

00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:32.000
center field. I also caught first base is pretty fun. Shortstop is fun. And I'm like sitting there

00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:33.000
thinking, I'm like, I'm just jumping to all these different things. Like I never had like one thing

00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:34.000
because I wasn't focused on one thing. I was focused focused on one position. I was focused on

00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:35.000
just be like, put me wherever, I'm just gonna be the best.

00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:36.000
And

00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:37.000
Paul Salter (16:03.799)

00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:38.000
And you thrived in that, like being needed and making the most of it.

00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:39.000
Kris Basmagy (16:07.724)

00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:40.000
Yeah, I still do now. I I I I I do my best to to do it in a healthy way, but yeah, no, I I was just

00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:41.000
thriving and just like you need me, I'm gonna step up and I'm gonna get it done and I'm gonna

00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:42.000
I'm gonna make you feel good about your choice.

00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:43.000
Paul Salter (16:20.855)

00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:44.000
And it's so noble. There's underneath it, my words, not yours. They're just a little boy desperate

00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:45.000
for more attention and emotional connection at home. Still had a great upbringing, great

00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:46.000
relationship with his parents by all accounts, but something's still missing. He finds performance

00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:47.000
as an outlet to get that need met. And he takes it to the extreme to incredible success. Until, and

00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:48.000
you actually said this in our prep work, which mirrors what I say all the time, that superpower

00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:49.000
starts to become your kryptonite.

00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:50.000
So for you, when baseball ended, did that competitive operating system disappear, or did you

00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:51.000
simply find another score?

00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:52.000
Kris Basmagy (16:59.512)

00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:53.000
Found another scoreboard. Another scoreboard with a heavy dose of identity crisis that wasn't

00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:54.000
worked through probably until about last year. because for a while I I I'm I watch a lot now, but

00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:55.000
for like six or seven years I could not watch a baseball game.

00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:56.000
Paul Salter (17:22.851)

00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:57.000
Tell us about that.

00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:58.000
Kris Basmagy (17:24.898)

00:03:58.000 --> 00:03:59.000
It hurt. It hurt so bad. Like at the level that I played at, I knew a lot of people that got the

00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:00.000
opportunity to get drafted, go on to play, you know, division one, get drafted, go on, play

00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:01.000
professionally, and like

00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:02.000
I mean, maybe this is just like the delusional competitor in me or whatever. But like I always

00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:03.000
knew that like if if things would have went a different way for me, that it easily could have been

00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:04.000
myself. And I would just beat myself up over it. Like I couldn't let it go. And the I would always

00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:05.000
for I would go through these cycles where I would like

00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:06.000
Especially like right after college ended, I would tell myself and I'd create this story that I was

00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.000
gonna do like this whole comeback thing. I was gonna start working out, I was gonna go do a

00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:08.000
tryout for, you know, like a like a local minor league team or one of these frontier league teams. I

00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.000
was like, I'm just gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I gotta do it. and I never did it

00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:10.000
because like I would start and it I would start doing it and then it would just be like so

00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:11.000
painful and then I would just start thinking about all these things and I would start thinking about

00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:12.000
things from the past and I just never got around to it and I would just keep repeating the cycle

00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:13.000
and it would just every time I would repeat the cycle it would get worse and worse and worse

00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:14.000
until it got to the point where it was just like something needed to be done about it.

00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:15.000
Paul Salter (18:47.609)

00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:16.000
So these things you keep thinking of, they sound heavy, debilitating, depleting, exhausting. Give

00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:17.000
us an insight. Like what was the self-talk or the story sounding like that made it so challenging to

00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:18.000
attempt this company?

00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.000
Kris Basmagy (19:09.89)

00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:20.000
I don't even know if I can put words to it, but it was just like for as delusionally optimistic as I am,

00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:21.000
I can also be worse on the pessimistic side of things. And, you know, I mentioned when I was in

00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:22.000
high school I had Tommy John surgery.

00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:23.000
worst part of your high school career to get it, your your junior year, as you're either cleaning up

00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:24.000
your recruitments or heavily get being recruited and then moving on. And I lost a lot of

00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:25.000
opportunities through that because it's like a year and a half recovery. And it affected me on the

00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:26.000
mental side and the emotional side. But then like a lot of people, like it's seven you're 17 years

00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:27.000
old, man. Like you're showing that you're already injury prone and I lost a lot of opportunities.

00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:28.000
And

00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:29.000
you know I I went from like going like to s all these division one schools in the summertime,

00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:30.000
doing workouts with them and stuff like that to like

00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:31.000
almost begging to be led on to a division three roster because nobody wanted to give me the

00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:32.000
time of day. And then I was also now in the moment not thinking like this, but now in hindsight,

00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:33.000
like I was also like self-destructing because like I was I had that sense of entitlement and I had

00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:34.000
all this stuff. Like people didn't want to deal with that. I didn't feel like it at the moment. I just felt

00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.000
like I was being a competitive athlete. And you know, when that happens, that

00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:36.000
makes you feel like or at least it made me feel like it wouldn't be worth it. Like it's like look, it it

00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:37.000
you fell off. I i you know, get over it. And then

00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:38.000
Kris Basmagy (20:51.838)

00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.000
I would go to sleep and I'd wake up like, no, no, no, no, we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it.

00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:40.000
We're we're gonna do this. This time's gonna be different. And then like you'd start getting in the

00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:41.000
middle of it. It's like, yeah, but like history shows like it's not worth your time. Like, don't do it.

00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:42.000
And then you would talk to other people, like, imagine me being like 22, 23 years old, getting

00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:43.000
into investment banking. I had met my now wife at the time. We were like basically living

00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:44.000
together. And I'm telling everybody, like, yeah.

00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:45.000
Paul Salter (21:12.195)

00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:46.000
Okay.

00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:47.000
Kris Basmagy (21:16.384)

00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:48.000
Screw this great career in finance. I'm getting back. I'm gonna go walk on to this roster. it was

00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:49.000
the what was the name of the team? The Sussex County Minors, Frontier League. I'm gonna go

00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:50.000
do a tryout. They're gonna want me. I'm gonna do all this work. There's no way it doesn't work.

00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:51.000
And everybody looked at me like I had like seven heads. And then the dream was dead right

00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:52.000
then and there.

00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:53.000
Paul Salter (21:22.745)

00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.000
Yeah.

00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:55.000
Kris Basmagy (21:38.477)

00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:56.000
You know, like and then I would talk myself into it again. And then the same cycle would repeat.

00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:57.000
And then we just never got there. And then obviously while I was doing that, I'm very good at

00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:58.000
even maybe I'm feeling like identity crisis or I'm feeling depressed, wildly successful in what I

00:04:58.000 --> 00:04:59.000
was doing professionally as well. So building a career, building a network, making good money,

00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:00.000
and all this other stuff. So these two things are existing at the same time. And like, yeah, it just it

00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:01.000
it became a very difficult thing for.

00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:02.000
Yeah.

00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:03.000
Paul Salter (22:09.977)

00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:04.000
Well, I hear you're going to absolute fucking war with yourself every day. The flipping and

00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:05.000
flapping, one moment it's time to hang it up. The next you're more motivated than ever. At that

00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:06.000
time, how did you quiet those voices? How did you find a moment of peace to have them shut

00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:07.000
up so you could just simply be?

00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:08.000
Kris Basmagy (22:14.95)

00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:09.000
yeah.

00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:10.000
Kris Basmagy (22:29.946)

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:11.000
it didn't happen very often. but I've always been a big person with like the gym. So I would go

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:12.000
lift. I've always been a big surfer musician. So go out into the ocean, go surf. It's something I've

00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:13.000
been doing for a very long time. It it offers me peace. I just thought it was cool, but now I think

00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:14.000
about it, it's very meditative. But those things. But

00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:15.000
It was only while I was doing those things and then I'd be done with them and then I'd come

00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:16.000
back and then we're just like right back into the the storm basically.

00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.000
Paul Salter (23:05.677)

00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:18.000
So baseball's officially done. It takes you a couple of years to finally accept that and lay down

00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.000
any last attempt. The the performance driven environment and set of programs you've built have

00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:20.000
not died. They've just moved to a new arena. and although the environment changed, it doesn't

00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:21.000
really seem like the expectation did. People are still depending on you in this new environment.

00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:22.000
You're quick into leadership roles. So you absolutely have to perform.

00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:23.000
But now in this leadership position, and eventually we'll get to the chapter of life in this

00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:24.000
ownership position, there's no coach or manager above you to help you carry the weight of, you

00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.000
know, mismanage expectations or what went wrong. I'm curious when you made this shift into

00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:26.000
everything now becoming your responsibility, what did responsibility mean to you at that point in

00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.000
time?

00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:28.000
Kris Basmagy (23:56.515)

00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:29.000
So we're talking about entrepreneurship at this point.

00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.000
Paul Salter (24:00.174)

00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:31.000
Yeah, and even in the investment baking in even the next step with DoorDash, you're taking on

00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:32.000
this leadership role.

00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:33.000
Kris Basmagy (24:08.046)

00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:34.000
It wasn't easy. I'm not gonna lie to you. It was really like it was like the definition of like do as I

00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:35.000
say, not as I do. I was really, really good. Like

00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:36.000
I was always the person where like if there was like issues going on, whether it be between

00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.000
employees, fires in the business that nobody could figure out, I would just turn everything off,

00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:38.000
work till like nine o'clock, figure it out, come back tomorrow. I'm like, guys, I got it. It was fixed,

00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:39.000
and it would be fixed. But then in my personal life, I was just like the I guess the anxiety of not

00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:40.000
having that that backstop, if you will.

00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:41.000
it would come out my personal life. But if I put the hat on for the professional life, it was fine. I

00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:42.000
can handle it. Throw me into the middle of a fire. It's fine. But then, you know, you I I clock out

00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:43.000
for the day or I shut my computer down for the day. And it's just right into this like state of like

00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:44.000
anxiety, just like fight or flight almost. I was always constantly scared that I was gonna lose my

00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:45.000
job. Always, no matter how successful I was, I was like, my God, like

00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:46.000
It's coming. Like I know it's coming. But there was no reason for it. And I remember I remember

00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:47.000
my a manager that I had at DoorDash, Jeff, who's a friend of mine, we would have I would just

00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:48.000
like have to have these Ven sessions with him and just talk to him. I was lucky I found

00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.000
somebody there. And he'd be like, dude, what are talking about? Like, you sound like crazy, like,

00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:50.000
why are you so anxious? Like what like it seems like you're just looking for more, you're looking

00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:51.000
for something else. Like

00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:52.000
You know, like what isn't? I didn't know what it was at the time. I done zero work on myself. So I

00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:53.000
was just kind of running on what I knew. And I was just like, I don't know. But like and then I

00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.000
would always feel temporarily better after speaking to him. And then the next day would come

00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:55.000
and I'd be right back into it. And it was like this constant thing. It was a constant, constant,

00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:56.000
constant reassurance. And I never got out of it. And it was just it was it was not fun. It was not

00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:57.000
fun.

00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.000
Paul Salter (25:53.315)

00:05:58.000 --> 00:05:59.000
Yeah.

00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:00.000
Paul Salter (26:12.983)

00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.000
So this constant fear of losing your job, I almost hear like you started behaving as if everything

00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.000
was in an emergency to protect yourself from this, you know, irrational fear of losing your job,

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.000
right?

00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:04.000
Kris Basmagy (26:23.768)

00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:05.000
Yeah. No, every every situation was like drop everything, it needs to be taken care of. Which

00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.000
helped in a lot of situations because I got a lot of stuff done. I was very productive, but like it it

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:07.000
burned me out so bad.

00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.000
Paul Salter (26:37.753)

00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.000
Where'd you learn that?

00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:10.000
Kris Basmagy (26:39.704)

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:11.000
That's baseball. That's the work every day as if somebody's coming to take your job. Work every

00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.000
day as if somebody's coming to take your job.

00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.000
Paul Salter (26:45.025)

00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:14.000
Yeah. And it's it's fascinating because you're right, society rewards it. You're always on, you're

00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:15.000
always available. Were you ever able to relax?

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:16.000
Kris Basmagy (27:01.122)

00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:17.000
Sometimes, very rarely. I was a very big drinker at the time. Very big like partier at the time. That

00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:18.000
was kind of like my escape. which at the at the time I felt like it was fun, but looking back on it,

00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:19.000
I'm like, my god, what are you doing, man? Like,

00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:20.000
You know, I would just go out and just try to escape. I was never having fun. I was always just

00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:21.000
trying to esc I was just always trying to escape the storm and just kind of like put myself in like

00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:22.000
almost like a different reality and just like disassociate from it. That was that was that was how I

00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:23.000
handled it. It's just like separating myself from it and then coming back to it. And then when it

00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:24.000
would get too much, separate again.

00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:25.000
Paul Salter (27:44.067)

00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:26.000
Yep. Describe the storm you are trying to escape.

00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:27.000
Kris Basmagy (27:49.657)

00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:28.000
Just heavel heavy depression, anxiety, self-deprecating thoughts to to a fault. I mean, it was just

00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:29.000
like this voice in the back of my head, like just you're not doing enough. You're you're you you

00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:30.000
you messed this one up, or you should have thought about this, or you should be thinking about

00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.000
this right now, because if you're not thinking about it right now, it might happen tomorrow.

00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:32.000
you know, in spilling over into my personal relationships it was always like, am I spending

00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:33.000
enough time with my parents? Right? Like and you know, a as I as I kinda put in in in in

00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:34.000
pre-notes, like I my dad went through health problems.

00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:35.000
around that period of my life. And that also started turning into, well, like maybe I should be

00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:36.000
shifting my priorities. Like maybe I'm not focusing enough time on that. Maybe this is a mistake.

00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:37.000
Am I am I being a good son? Am I also being a good at the time boyfriend, but husband to my

00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:38.000
wife?

00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:39.000
Am I spending enough time with her family, my in-laws that love me so much and and are

00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:40.000
supporting me and stuff like that while dealing with that stuff and while also at the time going

00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:41.000
back to the identity crisis, feeling very unfulfilled and feeling like this is not what I need to be

00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:42.000
doing. Like I need to be doing so much more in terms of like creating my own life, which is what

00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:43.000
got me into entrepreneurship. Because what I've built and the thoughts that I have have been

00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:44.000
with me forever. Like I've always wanted to do my own thing.

00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:45.000
I've never wanted to have to answer to anybody. I'm a very creative type. I like just creating

00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:46.000
things and building systems and helping people and coaching people. And I wasn't doing I was

00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:47.000
doing it. I was managing people, but it's totally different in like a large bureaucratic, you know,

00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:48.000
corporate environment. And I was miserable. I didn't like it. I was like, I could be doing things so

00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:49.000
much better. So all of that stuff is just constant like constantly rotating all day long. Those are

00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:50.000
the thoughts that were in my head.

00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:51.000
Paul Salter (29:56.888)

00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:52.000
And I it's interesting. I hear this word enough. And you said you started to have these this

00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.000
internal dialogue. am I doing enough in various aspects of your life? I'm curious, did you feel you

00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:54.000
were enough at that time as you are?

00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:55.000
Kris Basmagy (30:14.402)

00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:56.000
No. No. And during the deepest during the deepest phases of my depression, that was the

00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:57.000
constant thing in my head. Is you're not enough. You're not doing enough. you know, when I

00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:58.000
went to finally get help, the one thing they they were asking to write down things that were going

00:06:58.000 --> 00:06:59.000
on in your head or your constant thoughts or or the thought that you want to kick out, and it was

00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:00.000
that.

00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:01.000
It was I am not enough and then we write it into I am enough, I am enough, I am enough, over

00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:02.000
and over and over again because I never felt like enough.

00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:03.000
Paul Salter (30:49.217)

00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:04.000
Is there a moment that stands out that you first remember experiencing that feeling or that vo

00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:05.000
that voice of I'm not enough?

00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:06.000
Kris Basmagy (31:02.218)

00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:07.000
Yeah, I was probably and this is another thing I got tired of doing. I would tell that story of like

00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:08.000
who I could have been, right? It was the it was the it was it was the point in which I realized like

00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:09.000
w the goal that I had. Like I had a school that I was going to, it was gonna be division one, it was

00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:10.000
gonna do this, it was gonna be da da da da da and I realized it wasn't gonna happen. And I was

00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:11.000
like

00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:12.000
Maybe I'm not who I think I am. Maybe we've pushed this too far. Maybe this is delusional.

00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.000
Maybe you know, I'm wrong. Maybe I'm not enough. Maybe, you know, these kids are that much

00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:14.000
better than me that I didn't even realize it. Maybe that's why this is happening. And that's the

00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:15.000
story that I told myself.

00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:16.000
Paul Salter (31:50.294)

00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:17.000
Yeah. And what's interesting too, and I think you're aware of this, is that belief fueled the

00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:18.000
incredible work ethic, the tenacity, the ambition. Because if you worked a little bit harder, I

00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:19.000
imagine there was some version of, well, then I'll be enough. If I achieve X, if I get Y, you and I

00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:20.000
both know that's not true.

00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:21.000
Kris Basmagy (32:10.914)

00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:22.000
Yep. And it was never gonna be enough. It was never it was never gonna be enough. You know,

00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:23.000
I you know, we're all human beings and

00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:24.000
you're not gonna be perfect. I find myself falling into the trap every once in a while now, but the

00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:25.000
difference is like I know how to catch it, I know how to deal with it. But like, you know, the

00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:26.000
constant like, when I have this then I will be X. okay, then you get there and then you're like,

00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.000
okay, well then now when I have this, then I will be happy or then I will feel fulfilled. And it's I

00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:28.000
mean I'm saying the obvious here. It's almost like a cliche at this point, but like that's not true.

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:29.000
Like it's never true. Like the journey really true

00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:30.000
Truly is like the best part of it. Like we'll get into like the stressful business things, business

00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:31.000
situations that I had, you know, getting one of my largest entrepreneurial endeavors off the

00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:32.000
ground. At the time, it felt like the world was ending. But now I sit with my team and went

00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:33.000
through all that with me in the early phases. It's like

00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:34.000
I wish I could write a book about it. I can't right now, but it you know, we we we look back fondly

00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:35.000
on those times and we realize how much, you know, it's helped us grow and and learn and all

00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:36.000
that stuff. So yeah.

00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:37.000
Paul Salter (33:21.987)

00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:38.000
Who were you? Like, let's set the stage here. You know, we'll fast forward to the chapter of life.

00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:39.000
You're on the precipice of starting Dash Wave, which, you know, grows to being 100 to 150

00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:40.000
employees, you know, eight-figure business doing great work, having such an impact in the

00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:41.000
local community. You just alluded to how challenging it was to get this off the ground running.

00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:42.000
Describe that version of you at that time.

00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.000
Kris Basmagy (33:45.135)

00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:44.000
Poof. Running on fumes. Personally and professionally. Just getting it done, but like running on

00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:45.000
like you wanna talk about redlining? I was redlining. I mean the first

00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:46.000
First four months, we were doing 16 to 18 hours a day, seven days a week, no admin team

00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:47.000
hired, no management structure. We were just getting this thing off the ground, figuring it out,

00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:48.000
hiring. I was there with my dad. Thank, thank God I had him by my side. and not to mention

00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:49.000
My firstborn son was born month number two after we launched. so it was I mean, I was barely

00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:50.000
sleeping. I I remember multiple times, multiple evenings where the two of us would come back

00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:51.000
from our our distribution center and we would drive together. He'd drop me off at my house and

00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:52.000
be like one o'clock in the morning, and we would just be in the driveway.

00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:53.000
Just standing there, just like just I just felt like numb because it was just like there's just so many

00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:54.000
things going on. We were building it so fast. And I was already in this mental space that I hadn't

00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:55.000
worked through with myself. And I remember just like hugging him and just like laying there and

00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:56.000
just like crying. Like I was like, I just and that was it. I didn't say a word. It was just like that was

00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:57.000
it. I got it out.

00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:58.000
Went back into the house, he went home, like, see ya at six o'clock in the morning when you

00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:59.000
pick me up, we'll go do it all tomorrow. And then I would go sit on my steps and literally have a

00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:00.000
panic attack. My wife would be sleeping pregnant, almost being

00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:01.000
Kris Basmagy (35:34.841)

00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:02.000
you know, almost giving birth to our firstborn son. And I would literally be just sitting there not

00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:03.000
being able to breathe, like just yelling, just pacing back and forth, like total meltdown mental, just

00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:04.000
like let it like just yelling for no reason. Like almost like a primal yell. And I just like I was I can't I

00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:05.000
can't keep operating like this. And it and then, you know, that was happening for months,

00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:06.000
months and months and months and months and months.

00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:07.000
And then I was always this I was always this person who was like anti medication. I always told

00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:08.000
myself like I'm not doing that because then I can't live my life without it. I don't like that. I wanna

00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:09.000
be independent. I don't wanna feel like I have to have a prescription to live my life.

00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:10.000
Paul Salter (36:20.345)

00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:11.000
Pause here for a second, Kris. I want you to take us back to that stairway for a moment, that

00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:12.000
place that became an emotional outlet, a place of safety to release those emotions. Like what

00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:13.000
were you releasing through those panic attacks, that primal yelling that wasn't safe to express

00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:14.000
anywhere else?

00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:15.000
Kris Basmagy (36:39.672)

00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:16.000
Just vulnerability. I was never given an opportunity in anything I ever did to be vulnerable. I

00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:17.000
always had to be the person to sit there and be the rock for everybody else. And I always it goes

00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:18.000
back to like the performance thing, like I never felt like I had the opportunity to express to

00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:19.000
anybody or let it out or

00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:20.000
Just even talk about the level to which this had gotten to. Not even my wife. My wife had no

00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:21.000
idea. Like, she had no idea. Like, that's how good I got at hiding it. I looked like this like very

00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:22.000
successful person with this like great family that I was building. We had just bought our first

00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:23.000
house, careers going, and then we move into entrepreneurship. And a lot of people had no idea.

00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:24.000
Zero clue. And that those moments in that stairwell was like.

00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:25.000
Decades, like twenty years of all of it, and it finally hit a head at those moments when that

00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:26.000
happened, when the business started. You know, my son's on his way. A new sense of

00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:27.000
responsibility, obviously, and a new sense of pressure. and I I I I literally I I referred to it as I I

00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:28.000
broke.

00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:29.000
Like in that specific moment, it seemed so like in the moment I was just like, you just had a

00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:30.000
panic attack, like go get over it. In that moment, I broke. That was like that moment for me

00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:31.000
where things got worse after that, but it was sort of like the turning point where it was like, okay,

00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:32.000
this has gotten to a level that is now totally out of control.

00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:33.000
Paul Salter (38:16.077)

00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:34.000
Yeah. So that's the initial fracture, if you will, use the word break. Awesome. Let's take a step

00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:35.000
back for a moment. If I followed you around for the six months prior to that first break, what

00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:36.000
would I have seen from the outside looking in at your life?

00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:37.000
Kris Basmagy (38:38.702)

00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:38.000
Just somebody who's doing it, just getting out there and doing what other people don't want to

00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:39.000
do, taking the risks, living a great life. Like we were, I mean, we're taking trips to Italy, and we

00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:40.000
come back from Italy, we'd be in Austin, you know, going skiing, I'm surfing all the time, I'm

00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:41.000
doing like all these different things.

00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:42.000
Paul Salter (38:50.827)

00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:43.000
Expand on that. Great life, yeah.

00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:44.000
Kris Basmagy (39:06.08)

00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:45.000
And like I have like this the what everybody wants. They want this success and time to do

00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:46.000
things. and from the outside, like you look at like everybody says, you look at the pictures, it

00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:47.000
looks amazing. But nobody saw me in the summertime sitting on the couch depressed where I

00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:48.000
couldn't even stand up because of the panic attacks, because of how depressed I was. I was

00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.000
literally just like beautiful.

00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:50.000
Paul Salter (39:16.121)

00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:51.000
Yeah, yeah.

00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:52.000
Kris Basmagy (39:31.945)

00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:53.000
Saturday afternoon, 85 degrees and sunny out. I live down the shore in New Jersey, and I'm just

00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:54.000
and I surf and I fish and I do all those things. And my friends are literally calling and texting me,

00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.000
and I'm not responding to them because I'm literally sitting on the couch and rotting because of

00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:56.000
the depression and anxiety I was dealing with. And like people would be like, Why are you not

00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:57.000
responding to me? I'm like, I don't.

00:08:57.000 --> 00:08:58.000
Paul Salter (39:49.347)

00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:59.000
Mm.

00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:00.000
Kris Basmagy (39:58.637)

00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:01.000
My friends were like they were baffled. They're like, What is going on? Like I don't understand.

00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:02.000
And it's just I just wouldn't answer the phone. I wouldn't respond. I was withdrawing from all the

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:03.000
social groups that I had. Yeah.

00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:04.000
Paul Salter (40:11.427)

00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:05.000
What were you most proud of going on during that period of life?

00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:06.000
Kris Basmagy (40:21.44)

00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:07.000
At that period of my life, I would still tell the stories of who I was when I was playing baseball. I

00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:08.000
was the has been. No, I was the has been. I was that guy who was talking about, like, if this

00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:09.000
hadn't happened, then I would have been here. And I kept telling that story over and over and

00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:10.000
over again. it was that.

00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:11.000
Paul Salter (40:26.827)

00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:12.000
Interesting. Tell me more.

00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:13.000
Kris Basmagy (40:40.052)

00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:14.000
And then when that would get old, I was known as like the fun party person. What people used

00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:15.000
to say to me all the time that I absolutely hated. I hated it in the moment. But it was kind of like it

00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:16.000
was kind of fulfilling a little bit. But like even like my wife would say this and my and my

00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:17.000
mother-in-law would say it too. They'd be like, I love Trunk Kris. He's a great guy. I love like, you

00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:18.000
know, when we're out and doing the you're, you know, it's great guy. And then like

00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:19.000
Paul Salter (40:46.273)

00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:20.000
Mm.

00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:21.000
Paul Salter (41:01.281)

00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:22.000
Mm.

00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:23.000
Kris Basmagy (41:07.842)

00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:24.000
With that anxiety and that depression and all that stuff going on too, it my mind would go to,

00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:25.000
well, then am I just like a terrible person when I'm not? Like do I have to be that person for

00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:26.000
people to like me or to want to be around me? And then that turned into taking that whole life to

00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:27.000
a whole nother level.

00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:28.000
Paul Salter (41:16.493)

00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:29.000
Yeah.

00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:30.000
Paul Salter (41:28.293)

00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:31.000
Yeah. So at the time business is starting to take off, you know, you're pouring in twelve, fourteen

00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:32.000
hours a day, seven days a week. However, you're seeing progress, you're seeing results, your

00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:33.000
reputation is tenacious, ambitious worker, yet also fun party guy, up for anything, loves to be

00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:34.000
outdoors. What did waking up feel like each morning during that period?

00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:35.000
Kris Basmagy (41:53.9)

00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:36.000
A struggle.

00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:37.000
I getting myself out of bed was like super hard. Like I would just be there and be like, I don't

00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:38.000
want to get up. And I would have to. I would have to. later on in the business, as we matured a

00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:39.000
little bit, I was able to get a management team in and I was I didn't have to. And that's where the

00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:40.000
problem started to happen. When I got it so successful and I got systems in place.

00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:41.000
Paul Salter (42:22.423)

00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:42.000
You mentioned the partying was, you know, a a fairly prominent part of your life. You said it got

00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.000
taken to another level. What role did this partying play in helping you to avoid or manage those

00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:44.000
emotions you were trying to repress or avoid feeling?

00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:45.000
Kris Basmagy (42:38.828)

00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:46.000
It was my outlet. 'Cause I would get I would I was known as like this crazy person, right? I would

00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:47.000
like I would do like crazy stuff where I was like the funny guy telling jokes. Comedy has been a

00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:48.000
huge outlet for me as it is for a lot of people that have strong emotions.

00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:49.000
Paul Salter (42:45.057)

00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:50.000
Yeah.

00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:51.000
Kris Basmagy (42:56.79)

00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:52.000
Yeah. It was sorry. It's tough to talk about sometimes.

00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:53.000
Kris Basmagy (43:09.39)

00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:54.000
Can you repeat that part? I'm sorry, I just got lost in my own thought.

00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:55.000
Paul Salter (43:12.877)

00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:56.000
Totally okay. So partying goes to another level. And you allude to it's an outlet, it's an escape.

00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:57.000
What was it helping you escape?

00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:58.000
Kris Basmagy (43:18.104)

00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:59.000
Yeah.

00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:00.000
Kris Basmagy (43:27.392)

00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:01.000
It was the demons in my head. The thoughts. The thoughts would go away. The thoughts would

00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:02.000
turn into very positive thoughts, right? The thoughts would turn into euphoric thoughts. Like it

00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:03.000
was like a sense of euphoria during those things. It was like this chase of escape and feeling

00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:04.000
really, really good. And obviously feeling terrible afterwards. But it was yeah, it was just a

00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:05.000
euphoric chase to just do anything to shut those those those things off. Those those thoughts,

00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:06.000
those voices in my head.

00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:07.000
Paul Salter (43:58.712)

00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:08.000
You're working 60 to 70 hours a week. The amount you're partying relying on substances is only

00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.000
increasing. What were the earliest signs that something wasn't right that you kept overriding?

00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:10.000
Kris Basmagy (44:19.138)

00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:11.000
I would just start not doing things or not showing up to certain things because I was going to

00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:12.000
prioritize that. Or I felt so terrible from the night previous that I just would not leave the house. I

00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:13.000
remember several times where we would go to like a f we would have like a family party on the

00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:14.000
calendar or

00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:15.000
my wife's really close friends with her high school friends still and they they get together all the

00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:16.000
time. And we'd be getting ready to leave and I'm like, I'm not going. She's like, why? I'm like, I'm

00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:17.000
just not going. I'm just staying home. Like I'm not I don't feel good. I feel sick. Like I'm just I'm

00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:18.000
just gonna stay home. And she's like and we get into an argument about it. I'm like, I'm I'm I'm

00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:19.000
not I it's just I'm not gonna go.

00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:20.000
several times, family parties, friend events, this, that, whatever, and then just I wasn't doing

00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:21.000
anything, just staying home. and a lot of times it would be because either the night previous or

00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:22.000
instead of going, I would sit at home and I would escape by myself in a way that I felt was the

00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:23.000
proper outlet for myself while people would go do other things.

00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:24.000
And yeah, that was not a fun realization when I started understanding what was happening.

00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:25.000
Paul Salter (45:46.361)

00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:26.000
Who knew how bad things had actually become at that point?

00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:27.000
Kris Basmagy (45:54.263)

00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:28.000
My wife had an idea.

00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:29.000
But nobody actually really knew, believe it or not. I was so good at like hiding it. I was so good at

00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:30.000
making sure nobody understood. I was so good at keeping my image good with everybody.

00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:31.000
Paul Salter (46:05.88)

00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:32.000
Yeah.

00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:33.000
Kris Basmagy (46:13.522)

00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:34.000
so that they wouldn't think of me differently or they wouldn't, you know, th that now they don't

00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.000
want to be around me anymore. It was so good at hiding and concealing things. and it was such

00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:36.000
a crappy feeling to have to think like that, to have to

00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.000
Paul Salter (46:28.665)

00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:38.000
Yeah.

00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:39.000
Kris Basmagy (46:29.816)

00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:40.000
feel like I have to like hide these things and and and and not tell anybody and like know that I'm

00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:41.000
suffering. Like I didn't fully understand it at the time until I really started doing the work. But like,

00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:42.000
you know, you have those thoughts in the back of your head, like there's something weird going

00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:43.000
on here.

00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:44.000
And yeah, I mean, my wife found out because I guess she had like a kind of a weird feeling. She

00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:45.000
she grabbed my phone and she's just like, something's weird with Kris. I don't understand what's

00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:46.000
what's going on. Something's weird. And she grabbed my phone, and the only thing I guess I

00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:47.000
wasn't good at concealing was my search history. And she had seen that I was Googling ways

00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:48.000
to kill myself.

00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:49.000
Paul Salter (47:12.889)

00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:50.000
Mm.

00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:51.000
Kris Basmagy (47:18.348)

00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:52.000
Like full stop right there. Like she just like grabs my phone and sees that. And

00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:53.000
She didn't tell me right away. She saw it and she, you know, I guess processed it the way that

00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:54.000
she was gonna process it. And she just like almost had like her own mini intervention with me

00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.000
and was like, listen, like you this is you need to go.

00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:56.000
She's like, not not that I thought it was this bad, but like I've seen like weird cycles with you. I

00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:57.000
know something's a little off, but I I had no idea that this was where it was. It made her really

00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:58.000
upset. And she's like, you have to go and talk to somebody. You have to go get medication.

00:10:58.000 --> 00:10:59.000
Like, you have to do something. You can't ignore it anymore. Like, either like you do this or like

00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:00.000
your your life will be over, literally. and she the next day.

00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:01.000
Paul Salter (48:10.498)

00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:02.000
Yeah.

00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:03.000
Kris Basmagy (48:16.13)

00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:04.000
She literally sent me a list of fifty psychiatrists within the region that I could possibly go to. And

00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:05.000
me being me, I said, well, none of them will take my insurance. I'm not doing this. Like just

00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:06.000
making excuses. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She actually went, called them and set up the

00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:07.000
appointment for me and forced me to go. And

00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:08.000
Paul Salter (48:27.627)

00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:09.000
Mm.

00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:10.000
Paul Salter (48:38.295)

00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:11.000
Before you go there, take a step back for me. What experience or emotion became so heavy

00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:12.000
and uncomfortable that it pushed you to the brink of searching for ways to kill yourself?

00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.000
Kris Basmagy (49:01.078)

00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:14.000
It goes back to the what we were talking about previously. Just not being good enough. I felt

00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:15.000
worthless. I would go into these intense moments of just feeling absolutely worthless. Like

00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:16.000
nobody cared about me at all. Nobody cared enough to understand what I was going through.

00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:17.000
Even if I told them I felt like they didn't care.

00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:18.000
I just felt worthless. I just felt like who who who really cares? Why would why would it even

00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:19.000
matter? And it was just like so intense of just worthlessness.

00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:20.000
Paul Salter (49:42.595)

00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:21.000
Did anything bring you joy during that period of life?

00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:22.000
Kris Basmagy (49:53.367)

00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:23.000
be honest with you, nothing comes to mind other than just like the escape of like, you know,

00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:24.000
drugs and alcohol, to be quite honest with you. I mean that's really that's really what it was at

00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:25.000
that period of time. Like that was what was on my mind all the time because I was the only thing

00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:26.000
that made that that thought go away.

00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:27.000
Paul Salter (50:10.423)

00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:28.000
Yeah. So your wife calls and schedules the appointment with the psychiatrist. What happens

00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:29.000
next?

00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:30.000
Kris Basmagy (50:19.23)

00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.000
Kris Basmagy (50:23.19)

00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:32.000
I talked to somebody for the first time. And you know, it was very clear to them like what was

00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:33.000
going on. And they prescribed me medication. I was prescribed Lexapro and Xanax for the first

00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:34.000
time. Very and I and I and here's the here's the funny thing is

00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:35.000
Obviously, subconsciously, I knew that there was something going on with like substance abuse,

00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:36.000
right? Because when she mentioned that she was gonna give that to me, I said, please give me

00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:37.000
the smallest dose that you can possibly give me.

00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:38.000
Kris Basmagy (51:07.032)

00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:39.000
She's like, that's fine. Like I can give you like 0.25 milligrams or whatever. It's nothing. And she's

00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:40.000
like, is there a problem? Like, no, no, no, no. I just, you know, I've just heard things. I don't, I

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:41.000
don't want it. And thank the Lord that I did that. Because I still remember the first time I took that

00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:42.000
medication. I obviously the Lexapro doesn't work right away, but I took the 0.25 milligrams of

00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:43.000
Xanax.

00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:44.000
I I literally like I I got out of CVS, I'm in my car, I open it, I put it I I throw it then, wash it down.

00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.000
And everything shut off. The anxiety was like almost non-existent. I felt like it felt like somebody

00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:46.000
just like flipped the switch almost. And I was like, I I literally said out loud, my god, is this what it

00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:47.000
feels like to feel normal? And I went home and I looked at my wife, I was like.

00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:48.000
Paul Salter (51:52.153)

00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:49.000
Paul Salter (51:59.203)

00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:50.000
Hm.

00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:51.000
Paul Salter (52:06.254)

00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:52.000
Wow.

00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:53.000
Kris Basmagy (52:10.826)

00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:54.000
I just I I feel like I'm experiencing life differently for the f for the first time after doing this. It was

00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:55.000
like I was like, my God, I don't have to feel like this. I it was just it was s it wa and and that's why

00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:56.000
I say thank God they didn't do more because it it worked so well for me. and it I I saw the first

00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:57.000
light. But that was just medication. I wasn't doing anything else.

00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:58.000
Paul Salter (52:17.401)

00:11:58.000 --> 00:11:59.000
Yeah.

00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:00.000
Paul Salter (52:28.525)

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:01.000
Mm-hmm.

00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:02.000
Paul Salter (52:39.107)

00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.000
Yeah.

00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:04.000
Kris Basmagy (52:40.898)

00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:05.000
But yeah, no, it was it was life changing for me and and it worked in a really positive way in the

00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:06.000
beginning stages.

00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.000
Paul Salter (52:48.293)

00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:08.000
Well, it's interesting because I want to hear about the intermediate stages, if you will. But one of

00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:09.000
the themes or undercurrents of our conversation, your journey has been this, I don't have a safe

00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:10.000
space to be vulnerable. Tell us about that experience having to be vulnerable with that

00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:11.000
psychiatrist for the first time.

00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:12.000
Kris Basmagy (53:06.714)

00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:13.000
I balled my eyes out. Like a baby. Like just balled my eyes out. I just went into everything. It was

00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:14.000
like too much for just like a psychiatric evaluation for medication. She's just like I think she was

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:15.000
just like kinda like looking at me a little weird at first, but I was I just I just went. It was like I was

00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.000
finally given permission. Like the secret the secret was at the secret was out. I couldn't suppress

00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:17.000
it anymore. I couldn't hide it anymore. It was it was done.

00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:18.000
Right? Like somebody knows somebody knows the full thing. There is no more covering this up

00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:19.000
anymore. So the only path forward now is to to give it a shot. And when I gave it a shot, I went

00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:20.000
all in on that first appointment.

00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:21.000
Paul Salter (53:51.45)

00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:22.000
So you go all in, you get the medication. The medication initially is incredibly helpful, but did I

00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:23.000
perhaps hear only to a point or for a specific timeline?

00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:24.000
Kris Basmagy (54:03.264)

00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:25.000
Only to a specific point and then for a specific timeline and then after a while like you get

00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:26.000
adjusted to it, you get used to it, and then it becomes less effective. and I wasn't doing any

00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:27.000
personal work on top of that. Nothing. Like zero. Just taking medication and that's it, and just

00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:28.000
continuing my life the way that I was.

00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:29.000
Paul Salter (54:18.403)

00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:30.000
Okay.

00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:31.000
Paul Salter (54:23.555)

00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:32.000
So no behavior change, just a medication band-aid that worked in the short term.

00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:33.000
Kris Basmagy (54:29.684)

00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.000
Yep. and then almost as quickly as I felt the sense of relief, I felt things starting to come back

00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:35.000
almost. the darkness, the depression, the substance abuse started happening. I start like my

00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:36.000
business is based in New York City, right? That is a playground for somebody who is in a

00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:37.000
situation like that. And

00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:38.000
I mean, some of the and my my my business is running. And now we're at the point where I've

00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:39.000
scaled it, I've hired a team, they've created systems, I've created like ironclad systems where

00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:40.000
basically I don't have to be present anymore. So I have all this time, all this money, all these

00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:41.000
issues, within stone's throw of New York City.

00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:42.000
And my business is operating in New York City. So I always have an excuse to to be there

00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:43.000
because we're operating on the streets there. And like multiple times I'd find myself with

00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:44.000
excuses to be out till by myself, two, three o'clock in the morning. Just I mean, to a point that

00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:45.000
nobody should ever be. because now nobody needed me. I built the business to the point where

00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:46.000
It was running itself. I built the business to the point where I would walk into the station.

00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:47.000
And they would tell me to leave because I was getting in their way. And there was nothing for

00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:48.000
me to help with. And now I have all this all this time on my hands. I'm like, what do I do? Where

00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:49.000
do what wha who

00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:50.000
Paul Salter (56:17.945)

00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:51.000
What did that feel like? Like your whole your whole story so far is just this badge of honor for

00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:52.000
being needed, being able to over being able to perform well and exceed expectations. And now

00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.000
you're not needed because of your hard work. What'd that feel like?

00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:54.000
Kris Basmagy (56:32.448)

00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:55.000
It was again scary. It was like a very similar situation and like weird, was a shift because it was

00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:56.000
like now life looks a little different. Like now I don't know, like we're very successful, it's going

00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:57.000
well. I have all these great relationships and a really great team that like I care for a ton and and

00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:58.000
They tell me they don't need me. I'm in their way. So all this you know, I could go into I could go

00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.000
into New York on a Tuesday at two o'clock in the afternoon with quite literally nothing to do. And

00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:00.000
I didn't like that. I've never been that person. I've always had something to keep me busy. So

00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:01.000
again, we would go to escape. And I get in two o'clock, three o'clock, and

00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:02.000
Paul Salter (57:04.323)

00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:03.000
Was no go ahead.

00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:04.000
Paul Salter (57:21.529)

00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:05.000
Yeah.

00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:06.000
Kris Basmagy (57:26.582)

00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:07.000
My wife would be frantically calling me at two AM wondering where the hell I was.

00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:08.000
Paul Salter (57:33.197)

00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:09.000
You've got the money, you've got the team, you've got the respect, the mentorship, leadership

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:10.000
opportunities, a loving, supportive wife, a son, either here or on the way, depending where we

00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:11.000
are in the journey. Still wasn't enough.

00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:12.000
Kris Basmagy (57:47.659)

00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:13.000
Said to me when when when when we got to the point with like getting out and doing things,

00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:14.000
she's like, when is it gonna be enough for you? Because I don't think it ever is gonna be. And it

00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.000
wasn't because if you were to have a conversation with me at that period of my life, which it

00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.000
really wasn't that long ago, which was the crazy part,

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:17.000
I'd be telling you what I was about planning to do next. I'd pl I'd be planning on telling you what

00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.000
the next big business thing was that was gonna be better than what we built at Dashwave. I was

00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:19.000
gonna tell you what I was gonna build so that when Dashwave inevitably fails, I have a backup.

00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:20.000
Paul Salter (58:29.741)

00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:21.000
Why did you believe it was gonna fail?

00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:22.000
Kris Basmagy (58:33.582)

00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:23.000
'Cause I had seen so many other losses in my life. Like my it was riddled with loss, whether it be

00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:24.000
f family, whether it be my identity, whether it be, you know, my dad getting sick, which has

00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:25.000
happened multiple times in the past few years. It was just like this constant, like it was like, the

00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.000
cycle has gone on way too long in a positive way. When is the shoe gonna drop?

00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:27.000
Paul Salter (58:38.081)

00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:28.000
Mm-hmm.

00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:29.000
Paul Salter (58:59.225)

00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:30.000
Mm.

00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:31.000
Kris Basmagy (59:01.1)

00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:32.000
So I was constantly trying to like hedge against that and that will drive you quite literally insane.

00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:33.000
Paul Salter (59:08.393)

00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:34.000
it connects to you living in that emergency like state all the time. If you're always expecting the

00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:35.000
other shoe to drop, you're always gonna be hyper-vigilant, alert, and on guard. So it tracks with

00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:36.000
such great congruency. So then walk us through. We talked a little while ago, that first sh break,

00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:37.000
the fracture in the foundation, if you will. I know there's another break. I don't know if it's a

00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:38.000
breaking point. It I mean, clearly from my perspective, having gotten to know you, it's definitely a

00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:39.000
turning point.

00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:40.000
'Cause I know the man I'm sitting across from today is is not the person I couple years ago I

00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:41.000
wouldn't recognize the two. That period of life, the couple weeks and days before what's going

00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:42.000
on?

00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:43.000
Kris Basmagy (59:56.299)

00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:44.000
I was on one of those episodes, Benders, if you will, which were very cyclical. It was very funny

00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:45.000
talk about congruency because they would always happen at the same time of the year. Always.

00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.000
It was like seasonal. And sorry, I'm like looking down because it's so hard to like remember

00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:47.000
myself as this person, but I

00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:48.000
I had to go into New York for a transportation conference and I stayed overnight by myself. And

00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:49.000
Kris Basmagy (01:00:41.976)

00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:50.000
Man.

00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:51.000
Kris Basmagy (01:00:47.048)

00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:52.000
And you know, a lot of people that I knew were there and we went out to dinner and it was great.

00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:53.000
Like we all know each other really well. It was a casual night up to that point. And then started

00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:54.000
bringing out bottles of wine, everybody's drinking, and the one guy is a big wine enthusiast, so

00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:55.000
you know, I just I didn't I didn't know how to say no back then at all. I didn't know when to stop. It

00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:56.000
was almost like a race for more. And

00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:57.000
Kris Basmagy (01:01:18.518)

00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:58.000
Yeah, that night turned into me at three o'clock in the morning in the middle of midtown

00:13:58.000 --> 00:13:59.000
Manhattan, just pacing back and forth in front of a a closed club. Just nowhere to be, just totally

00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:00.000
just out of my mind. Like literally you walk New York City sometimes and you see people that

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:01.000
are a little crazy. I was that person.

00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:02.000
Now looking back at it. In my head I was like, Yeah, we're just like on this adventure ride,

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:03.000
whatever, escaping.

00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:04.000
I had all that that you just talked about. Money, success, time on my hands, kids, loving wife,

00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:05.000
loving family, all this other stuff. And that's where I was. And this was not even two years ago. I

00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:06.000
had to look at the calendar. feels like a lifetime ago.

00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:07.000
And I was like was lying about what I was doing. And I came home and my wife like called me

00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:08.000
out on it. She she kinda had like a she could tell with me. Like we're we're we've we've known

00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:09.000
each other for a long time. She's just like something not right.

00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:10.000
And I was like adamant, like, no, no, no, no, like we're we're all good. Like I just went to the

00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:11.000
conference, everything's fine. And she's like, Okay, yeah, no problem. And then I went to go do

00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:12.000
something and she just wasn't willing to accept it 'cause she had already seen what I had been

00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:13.000
researching previously. We already had gone on this journey, she already knew that there was

00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:14.000
like this risk involved with what I was doing. And

00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:15.000
Kris Basmagy (01:03:12.714)

00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:16.000
She found out what I had been doing all night and the fact that I was going out, partying,

00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:17.000
drinking, drugs, all this stuff, and

00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:18.000
She just basically gave me an ultimatum. She's like, I'm not She's like, We have a kid. We have

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:19.000
another one on the way. She had just f found out she was pregnant. She's like, I'm not

00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:20.000
Like this isn't the life that I want. I don't deserve this. She doesn't. You know, she was always

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:21.000
like kind of like the rock and foundation to bring me back to center. And she's like, This isn't you.

00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:22.000
Like, this isn't you at all. Like, this isn't who I knew. This isn't who I know. Like, I don't

00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:23.000
understand what what is happening, but this isn't you, and you need to do something. And she

00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:24.000
said it in a way where I knew it was serious. And the next day, again, like just

00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:25.000
Paul Salter (01:03:52.537)

00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:26.000
Yeah.

00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:27.000
Kris Basmagy (01:04:10.124)

00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:28.000
I don't know how else to say other than by God's grace, I start researching. And I found this

00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:29.000
place 10 minutes from my house. there was a IOP program. I had no idea what that was, but I

00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:30.000
just started Googling, like, I'm having issues, substance abuse, this, that, whatever.

00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:31.000
Paul Salter (01:04:20.354)

00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:32.000
Okay.

00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:33.000
Kris Basmagy (01:04:32.038)

00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:34.000
And the hello phone number I I sent the message off when they call me back to do this intake.

00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.000
Sounded really good. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I was just like, I just I need to

00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:36.000
do something. And then then I told my wife what I was doing. She really didn't understand what

00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:37.000
it was either, because none of us had really gone through anything like this before. And I go in

00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:38.000
for my first appointment.

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:39.000
Paul Salter (01:04:41.325)

00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:40.000
Yeah.

00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:41.000
Kris Basmagy (01:04:58.176)

00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:42.000
And that was the beginning of the end for that really terrible version of myself. Like that decision

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:43.000
to go in there and do that and finally like again like secrets out. No longer can hide this stuff

00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:44.000
anymore. I gotta go do it. And that place changed my life. It it it it it it absolutely did. I remember

00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:45.000
for the first

00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:46.000
Paul Salter (01:05:11.17)

00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:47.000
Yeah.

00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:48.000
Paul Salter (01:05:20.777)

00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:49.000
Mm.

00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:50.000
Kris Basmagy (01:05:25.358)

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:51.000
For the first month of it, I was because I was still running the business at the time, but like I so I

00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:52.000
was like, I can't do it full time, but I'll do it three days a week. And I told my team, I'm like, listen,

00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:53.000
like it's the summertime. I have some stuff I gotta take care of. Like these are the days I'll be

00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:54.000
offline, you guys handle it. They were already handling it five days a week, so I figured it wasn't

00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:55.000
gonna be a problem. I remember for the first couple of months, like I just didn't say anything in

00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:56.000
the group setting. I would just sit there and just like listen to everybody. I didn't say a word.

00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:57.000
Paul Salter (01:05:32.654)

00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:58.000
Yeah.

00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.000
Paul Salter (01:05:48.92)

00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:00.000
Hmm.

00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.000
Well.

00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:02.000
Kris Basmagy (01:05:53.551)

00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:03.000
And I remember the first time I spoke up and started talking about what it was I was dealing

00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.000
with. I was so embarrassed, right? I was like, everybody's gonna judge me. Everybody's not

00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:05.000
gonna wanna like they're gonna be like, kick this guy out of here, he's a nut job. And the first I I

00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:06.000
couldn't even speak.

00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:07.000
I was crying so hard. I couldn't even s like it was just like it was like an exorcism. Like it was just

00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:08.000
like it was it was coming out in like a group setting in front of like fifteen people that I had no

00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:09.000
idea who they were, but I knew we were all there for the same reason with obviously somebody

00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:10.000
running the session. And I stopped in the middle of it, I'm like, I'm so sorry. And everybody's like,

00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.000
What are you talking about? You're sorry, like, go. Like

00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:12.000
Paul Salter (01:06:18.893)

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:13.000
Mm.

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:14.000
Paul Salter (01:06:35.032)

00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.000
Yeah.

00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:16.000
Kris Basmagy (01:06:36.024)

00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:17.000
Do it. And like people came up to me afterwards when we were done with the session and they

00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:18.000
like came at me in the hallway and they were like, thank you for doing that. That actually helped

00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:19.000
me a ton. That actually helped me a ton. And I was like, I'm not in this alone. Like, there are

00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:20.000
other people that are suffering. There is, you know, it's not just me against the world, if you will,

00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:21.000
type of thing. And I spent

00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:22.000
Paul Salter (01:06:46.585)

00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:23.000
Yeah.

00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:24.000
Paul Salter (01:06:52.921)

00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:25.000
Yeah.

00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:26.000
Kris Basmagy (01:07:06.7)

00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:27.000
I think officially it was like seven or eight months in that ILP program, three days a week, into

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:28.000
two individual sessions a week with the counselor where I working through everything. I mean, I

00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:29.000
went all the way down to the bone. Everything. Everything that we spoke about, maybe even

00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:30.000
deeper. Childhood, traumas, bullying, this, that. I mean, we went all the way there. We went all

00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.000
the way to the point where I didn't even realize something was happening. I had all my baseball

00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:32.000
equipment.

00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.000
Paul Salter (01:07:15.448)

00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:34.000
Hmm.

00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:35.000
Paul Salter (01:07:23.95)

00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:36.000
Yeah.

00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:37.000
Kris Basmagy (01:07:34.713)

00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:38.000
From my entire life, stashed in my childhood closet, sitting in the corner like a shrine, gloves,

00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:39.000
bats, balls, everything. And I had mentioned to them that I had a really hard time going to my

00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:40.000
childhood home. I said every time I walked in, I felt this sense of anxiety. And I always and I

00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:41.000
would say like it felt like there was a boogeyman in the closet that I hadn't resolved.

00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:42.000
And they pushed me to go upstairs. I didn't tell anybody I did this. I they said, go upstairs, take

00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:43.000
everything out that you're scared of getting rid of, that that haunts you, put it on the floor, sit

00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:44.000
there and just sit with it and feel every emotion. Don't suppress any of them, don't hide any of

00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:45.000
them, don't be afraid of any of them. Just

00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:46.000
Paul Salter (01:08:11.245)

00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.000
Yeah.

00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:48.000
Kris Basmagy (01:08:25.294)

00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:49.000
Sit with it and just wherever your mind goes, just process it all. And once you're done with that,

00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:50.000
pick it all up, throw in the garbage. Throw it in the garbage, light it on fire, get rid of it. Process it

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:51.000
and move on. And like that's it. Now we're moving on to the next chapter in life. And it totally got

00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:52.000
rid of the identity crisis that I had.

00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.000
I no longer care to even think about the life I would have had to live chasing that dream. I'm like,

00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:54.000
that's for somebody else. I I have a lot of respect for people like that, but it like it like freed me.

00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.000
Paul Salter (01:09:01.049)

00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:56.000
Mm-hmm.

00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:57.000
Paul Salter (01:09:06.585)

00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.000
Yeah.

00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:59.000
Kris Basmagy (01:09:11.476)

00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:00.000
It freed me in a way that like I never could have otherwise done. And it was kind of like now the

00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:01.000
next chapter of my life is starting. And then I started getting really focused as a father. I started

00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:02.000
getting really focused on like once I started working through all the stuff from the IOP, it became

00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.000
okay, these are the habits that I don't want my son to get from me. How do we f how do we fix

00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:04.000
these so that, you know, at such an early affirmative age, like he doesn't have to deal with this?

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:05.000
He doesn't have to go through the same things. How can I

00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:06.000
Paul Salter (01:09:11.778)

00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.000
Yeah.

00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:08.000
Paul Salter (01:09:22.423)

00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:09.000
Hmm.

00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:10.000
Paul Salter (01:09:31.971)

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.000
Yeah.

00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:12.000
Kris Basmagy (01:09:41.403)

00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.000
Make sure that he doesn't have to feel these types of things? How do I make sure that if these

00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:14.000
things do happen to me in my life, which

00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.000
They will. Like there's traumas that happen that like I don't allow him unknowingly to slip down

00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:16.000
this path because that's all I care about now. Like I don't care about anything. I love baseball. I

00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:17.000
watch the Yankees all day long. I'll sit there, I'll watch a baseball game. It I enjoy it now. But

00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:18.000
what I actually care about and what's constantly on my mind now after I've done this work is

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.000
Paul Salter (01:10:01.208)

00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:20.000
Yeah.

00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:21.000
Paul Salter (01:10:06.53)

00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:22.000
Yeah.

00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:23.000
Kris Basmagy (01:10:14.506)

00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:24.000
How are my children? Like, am I doing everything I need to do for them? Is my family solid?

00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:25.000
Like, even with the business and success and all the different stresses, like, all I care about is: is

00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:26.000
my family solid? Am I feeling life? Am I experiencing life? Am I stuck in a cloud? Am I actually

00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:27.000
present? All that stuff? All that matters to me now. And I

00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:28.000
Paul Salter (01:10:16.173)

00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:29.000
Mm.

00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:30.000
Kris Basmagy (01:10:40.79)

00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.000
Like if I hadn't done that, I don't even know if I would be here right now, to be quite honest with

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:32.000
you, because those thoughts that we talked about previously were so strong. but it has changed

00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:33.000
my life for the better. I'm still competitive, but I've figured out how to channel it. I was actually

00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:34.000
talking to the therapist that I use now. I talk about like I feel like this like that crazy energy that I

00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:35.000
used to have. I used to use anger a lot because I was so frustrated. And

00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:36.000
Paul Salter (01:11:01.09)

00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.000
Yeah.

00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:38.000
Paul Salter (01:11:07.383)

00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:39.000
Mm-hmm.

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:40.000
Kris Basmagy (01:11:10.016)

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:41.000
It would be very productive for me, but there would be a lot of casualties in the process. And

00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:42.000
now and now that I've been able to work on myself and understand myself a lot better, I still feel

00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.000
it. I still feel it. I remember it's this is funny, it's crossover the M19, a big cedar. I hit a snap hook

00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:44.000
and I had been playing very well.

00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:45.000
Paul Salter (01:11:13.753)

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:46.000
Yeah.

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:47.000
Kris Basmagy (01:11:30.638)

00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:48.000
And I was getting frustrated. It like two holes in a row. And I felt it. Like I felt like this, like it's like

00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:49.000
an adrenaline shock. I'm like, ooh, I could, I could, I could run with that. I really could. But then I

00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:50.000
just started talking to myself and it's like I just take it and I just like put it in this little like

00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:51.000
controlled ball. And I'm like, I I I use it in a in a in a focused way instead of in like this like

00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.000
radioactive way that like shoots like you know, a hundred feet each way and like takes

00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:53.000
everybody out in the process.

00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:54.000
Paul Salter (01:11:37.274)

00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:55.000
Mm.

00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:56.000
Paul Salter (01:11:46.893)

00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:57.000
Mm-hmm.

00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:58.000
Paul Salter (01:11:57.208)

00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:59.000
Yeah.

00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:00.000
Treatment taught you so much about yourself, empowered and equipped you with a lot of tools.

00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:01.000
What did treatment force you to admit about yourself that success had allowed you to avoid?

00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:02.000
Kris Basmagy (01:12:16.396)

00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.000
You can't do it all yourself.

00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.000
You can't do it all yourself. Like, as successful as you can be personally with achievements and

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.000
stuff like that, like

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:06.000
You're gonna you're gonna run into a train if you just try to do it all yourself, if you don't lean into

00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.000
the resources that you have, if you don't get the help that you need or you don't

00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:08.000
seek out the things that you know you should be doing because you're either prideful or like like

00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:09.000
I said previously, like I was always like, I don't need that. I don't I wanna be independent. I

00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:10.000
wanna I'm mentally tough. I I can handle it myself. I don't need anybody else. I just need myself.

00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.000
And as long as I have myself, everything's gonna be okay. And that thought process is

00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:12.000
was was running me off the side of a cliff and I have done a almost a complete one eighty these

00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.000
days. Like I'm like the delegation king in my business now because one, I've noticed that it helps

00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:14.000
empower those people because you're giving them a sense of responsibility and it actually

00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:15.000
builds more trust because you're saying, I trust you to hand handle this. Go handle it.

00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:16.000
Kris Basmagy (01:13:28.844)

00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:17.000
And two, like, I can't do everything. Even though I'm like, I can do it right, or maybe somebody's

00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:18.000
gonna screw this up or something like that. It's like, no, no, no. I put smart people that I trust in

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.000
place because I know that they can handle it. They're gonna go handle it. And I'm gonna focus

00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:20.000
on what I do best and they focus on what they do best. And it's gonna work. It's gonna be like a

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:21.000
nice harmony. Versus previously, I'm just like, no, I'm gonna just do this. I gotta grab this.

00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.000
Nobody can touch this. I have this. This is mine. I don't need that. And then it's like, yeah, you

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:23.000
can get that done, but at what cost?

00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:24.000
Paul Salter (01:13:53.027)

00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.000
Mm.

00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:26.000
Kris Basmagy (01:13:58.849)

00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.000
And now I have a lot more clarity and mental peace and and time on my hands and like

00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:28.000
I no longer have to sit with my my kids and be like constantly thinking about everything that's

00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.000
going wrong all the time because I've set up processes and I put people in place that I know can

00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:30.000
handle it and I trust. And my role now, I've completely changed my role within the company. I am

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.000
every not that's a bad way of saying it. I'm everybody's backstop. I am you come to me when

00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:32.000
you feel like you can't solve it anywhere else. You don't come to me because there's a fire. You

00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:33.000
come to me because you've you've tried these.

00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.000
Paul Salter (01:14:15.329)

00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:35.000
Mm.

00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:36.000
Kris Basmagy (01:14:35.892)

00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.000
avenues that you know we've talked about, we've we've coached on, we've trained on, you've

00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:38.000
tried all these different avenues, and you legitimately have nowhere else to go, I will always

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:39.000
raise my hand and be there and and help guide and and mentor and be be there for you and

00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:40.000
and and make sure that you understand the right path forward. But I've given people the space

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:41.000
now to go try to figure it out on their own because it's just it's too much of a mental load on me if

00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:42.000
I don't do that with everything we have going on.

00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:43.000
Paul Salter (01:14:58.243)

00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:44.000
Yeah.

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:45.000
Paul Salter (01:15:03.673)

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:46.000
I I hear a third point though. Your relationship with vulnerability, it sounds like to me, has

00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.000
dramatically changed, evolved over the years. Previously, there was an immense fear around

00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:48.000
being vulnerable. It wasn't safe. You never had a safe place. You've had a couple pivotal

00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:49.000
moments in your life where vulnerability, in your words, set you free, changed your life.

00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:50.000
What's your relationship with vulnerability now? Or perhaps actually a better way I want to frame

00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:51.000
that question, what do you want to teach your children about being vulnerable?

00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:52.000
Kris Basmagy (01:15:42.223)

00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:53.000
That it's necessary. It's not a weakness. It's actually it could be a power for you. It shows that,

00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:54.000
you know, it shows that you're in tune with yourself. It shows that you understand what's going

00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:55.000
on. It shows that you're, you know, you're doing the work. I want my kids I want my kids to

00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:56.000
always feel like if something feels overwhelming, that there is a path somewhere.

00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.000
It doesn't you don't have to own it all yourself. Like you don't have to just put the entire world on

00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:58.000
your back and just move forward and never you know, never let anybody know what's going on.

00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.000
Because the resources, the relationships, the network, the professional growth, the the the

00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:00.000
business growth that I have achieved, whether by luck,

00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.000
chance or the work that I've done since I've done all this work has been light years beyond

00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.000
anything I was doing before I did the work. Like just like these opportunities just open up.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:03.000
I get invited to these things. I get invited to this. We get this award for this. Not that I care that

00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.000
much about those things anymore. I'm more proud of like the team that I've built. I always make

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:05.000
sure I reward them. I could care less about the rewards for myself anymore. they all started

00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:06.000
coming in droves.

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.000
Paul Salter (01:17:05.401)

00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:08.000
Yeah.

00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:09.000
Kris Basmagy (01:17:13.804)

00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:10.000
when the mindset shift happened. Like it was like all of a sudden everything started happening

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:11.000
for us. And, you know, the way that I interact with vendors, the way that I interact with partners

00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:12.000
has dramatically changed as well. Because previously it was like, I don't need you. Tell me what

00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:13.000
you can do for me. I got and do all this myself. I don't need you. It was like very like combative.

00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:14.000
And now I approach all of my relationships and business in like a very collaborative fashion

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.000
where it's like

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.000
Paul Salter (01:17:13.811)

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:17.000
Mm.

00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:18.000
Paul Salter (01:17:28.473)

00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.000
Yeah.

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:20.000
Kris Basmagy (01:17:44.009)

00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:21.000
we we could do this together, like just cause I'm really good at like people will always a and it

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.000
just happens it's natural. Like people will be like, Kris, you need to do this. You're really good at

00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:23.000
that. I'm like, I I'll I'll I'll talk to you about it. Like if you want advice, sure. But like I'm not gonna

00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:24.000
start a team and run point on this. Like I'll advise you through it if you want. so, you know, I I I

00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:25.000
whereas previously it'd be like, Yeah, nope, give me it. I'm done. You don't need to do it. I I got

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:26.000
it. Right on my back.

00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:27.000
so it's it's it's helped me tremendously. So many opportunities have opened up. and I'm getting

00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:28.000
more work done with less stress. What's better than that?

00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:29.000
Paul Salter (01:18:25.347)

00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:30.000
Hmm. Yeah. Well, I hear that the treatment program helped you learn that it's safe to be

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.000
vulnerable and in fact your vulnerability can be a superpower that improves every area of your

00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:32.000
life. What did that period of your life help you unlearn that wasn't serving you any longer?

00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:33.000
Kris Basmagy (01:18:46.636)

00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.000
The you're talking about the period of like all the struggles and stuff like that.

00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.000
Paul Salter (01:18:51.161)

00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:36.000
Yeah, what do you have to unlearn, let go of to get to this place of more control, freedom,

00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.000
presence, and joy?

00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:38.000
Kris Basmagy (01:18:57.934)

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:39.000
Being okay with uncertainty

00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:40.000
Paul Salter (01:19:04.555)

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:41.000
Interesting. Tell me more.

00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:42.000
Kris Basmagy (01:19:04.97)

00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:43.000
I was I was always the person that like I needed to I needed a concrete answer. Like I I'm not

00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:44.000
even kidding. Like I've spent or I spent back then now it's more of an like an educational fun

00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:45.000
way, more spiritual way, but back then I spent way too much time on trying to find certainty

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:46.000
around death.

00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:47.000
Like I was researching, I was looking for evidence and this and that. And like that, that's that's

00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:48.000
an example to just show you the level that I would go with uncertainty. And like, even in

00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.000
business, like don't know what's gonna happen. We're in a transportation business, like

00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:50.000
accidents happen all time in New York City. I would sit there and like, when's the next accident

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:51.000
happening? my God. Is it gonna be catastrophic? Is there gonna be a lawsuit involved with it?

00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.000
Am I gonna lose my business? Am I gonna lose my contract? Is my insurer gonna see me as

00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:53.000
unsafe? I could spend all day about the different possibilities with uncertainty. And now I take

00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:54.000
that energy and we focus it on preventative programs and constantly training our employees

00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:55.000
and, you know, admitting that these fender benders side swipes is New York City, we run box

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:56.000
trucks. It's going

00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:57.000
to happen. I literally just before we had this, I was up in the station talking to my general

00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.000
manager and my field manager. We were talking about it because we were talking about the

00:18:58.000 --> 00:18:59.000
year in review of accidents and what insurance is going to look like. I was like, guys.

00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:00.000
You're never gonna be perfect. It's going to happen. The most important things are that we have

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.000
these programs in place, that we have safety training with our drivers, and that you have a very

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:02.000
solid documentation process so that when things happen, we can provide that and we move on.

00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:03.000
That's what we focus our energy on. We don't focus our energy on when is the next accident

00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.000
gonna happen. Because sadly enough, that mentality, because they've been with me since the

00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:05.000
beginning.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:06.000
Paul Salter (01:21:01.625)

00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.000
Yeah.

00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.000
Kris Basmagy (01:21:03.49)

00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:09.000
That mentality, them talking, was me. Like that's why they're talking like that. Like it was literally

00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:10.000
like a little reflection of myself from a few years ago.

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:11.000
Paul Salter (01:21:08.809)

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:12.000
Mm.

00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:13.000
Kris Basmagy (01:21:16.108)

00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:14.000
Because like that's what they learned from the way that I used to handle it. And I'm like, boy. So

00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:15.000
like now it's very bizarre to go through this whole transformation. Like they've been with me this

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:16.000
entire time. And then like this whole process that we talked about has gone on as I've built and

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.000
grown this business. I'm helping them unlearn things that they learn from me as a leader.

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:18.000
Paul Salter (01:21:34.017)

00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:19.000
Yeah.

00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.000
Paul Salter (01:21:40.321)

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.000
Mm.

00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.000
Kris Basmagy (01:21:42.389)

00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:23.000
really upset me that I see because again it's like when you when they talk about like your kids

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:24.000
are a reflection of yourself sometimes and you can show you what's going on. It's the same like

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.000
I'm not saying they're my kids, like they're family to me. We're really close, but like some of the

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:26.000
ways that they operate as leaders as I s as I sort of coach them, I see a lot of my personality

00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.000
traits that I had previously that they didn't have when they came in. So it's been a lot of that

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.000
recently.

00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:29.000
Paul Salter (01:21:47.257)

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:30.000
Yep.

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.000
Paul Salter (01:21:53.88)

00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:32.000
Yeah.

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:33.000
Paul Salter (01:22:08.097)

00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.000
Yeah.

00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:35.000
Kris Basmagy (01:22:09.09)

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:36.000
And they don't realize what's going on, right? Because like I'm not gonna sit there and go

00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:37.000
through my whole company and tell them all the stuff that I went through. But like in my head,

00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.000
I'm sitting there, I'm like, my God, I gotta make sure that I get them out of this because you

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:39.000
know, that's what I thought previously. And like I don't want them to continue on as leaders

00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.000
thinking like that's how they have to operate.

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:41.000
Paul Salter (01:22:11.053)

00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:42.000
Yeah.

00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.000
Paul Salter (01:22:28.235)

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:44.000
Yeah, you know where it leads. So I'm curious, I'm gonna shift us here a little bit. With look at

00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:45.000
your life today, you still have those same elements of success you had previously, yet you finally

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:46.000
committed to prioritizing the work on yourself. It's made a night and day difference. Do you

00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:47.000
believe that you fully learn to enjoy all the success you've achieved?

00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:48.000
Kris Basmagy (01:22:57.378)

00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:49.000
I don't think I'll ever fully enjoy it. I think

00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:50.000
Kris Basmagy (01:23:04.48)

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:51.000
I would say we're at like ninety percent now these days, which is a lot better. There's still

00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.000
moments and I've learned that I'm human and it's gonna happen. I was reminded of it yesterday

00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:53.000
in the session that I had. Kris, you're a good person, you have good intentions, you're a human

00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:54.000
being, you're not gonna be perfect. Don't beat yourself up if stuff like that happens. Don't be

00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:55.000
your own worst critic.

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:56.000
So, you know, I'll catch myself these days. It'll be short it'll be short lived, but there there are

00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:57.000
moments where things are stressful where like maybe I'm not enjoying it the way that I should.

00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:58.000
but definitely

00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:59.000
Paul Salter (01:23:40.205)

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:00.000
Define how you should. What do you think you sh it should feel like, look like, be like?

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.000
Kris Basmagy (01:23:55.289)

00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:02.000
Just being present, to be honest with you. Like just being present. That's really what it is. Cause

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:03.000
like that's that's that's that's all it is. Like wherever you are, you're just being present. Like you're

00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.000
not projecting out into the future, you're not sitting in the past, like you're just focused. Like I do a

00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:05.000
lot. I got it behind me, I got a mat. I do a lot of meditation in yoga these days. Like a lot. a lot, a

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.000
lot.

00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:07.000
Paul Salter (01:24:16.697)

00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:08.000
Yeah.

00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:09.000
Kris Basmagy (01:24:24.246)

00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:10.000
And it helps me a ton. And it teaches me to be grounded. It teaches me to strip away a lot of the

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:11.000
senses and just be focused on one specific thing. And that's what I try to do. When I'm in a

00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:12.000
conversation with somebody, or like I'm talking to my wife, or I'm with my son and he's being a

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.000
little difficult because he doesn't want to go to bed. He wants to watch Spider-Man and I'm

00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:14.000
getting angry.

00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:15.000
Previously, where I would get angry, I would now what I say to myself is like, you only have so

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:16.000
many of these moments with him, man. Like, just just be here. Like, stop thinking about what

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:17.000
bothered you this morning. Stop thinking about how he's trying to push your buttons. Like, just

00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:18.000
just be here. And to me, that's that's what I chase now in all aspects of life.

00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.000
Paul Salter (01:25:10.905)

00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:20.000
Mm. I love that. What didn't success give you that you thought it would?

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.000
Kris Basmagy (01:25:22.318)

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.000
Peace. I thought, you know, once I hit this, I'll be financially secure. I won't have to worry about

00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:23.000
anything anymore. Or once I hit this, maybe my wife won't have to work anymore, and she'll just

00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:24.000
be happy, just being a mom and and and and not having to stress about things in her job. The

00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.000
peace of mind is what I thought was gonna happen. And it was the exact opposite. It just

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:26.000
amplified every issue that I had ignored in my life.

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.000
To a level that I was not prepared for, which caused these breaks, right? Like I I really thought it

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:28.000
was like, Yep, I'm gonna hit this, everything's gonna be good. And that's what everybody thinks

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:29.000
then when they talk to me. That's what everybody thinks when they talk to me. I get messages

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:30.000
all the time from people I worked with,

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.000
Friends from college who I hadn't seen in a while and they see all the stuff we're doing. We're

00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:32.000
doing like ads with Amazon in New York City. And I'm on the news doing this press conference

00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:33.000
and stuff like that. Because of the work that we do. And they're like, Keep going, man. Like,

00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:34.000
you're killing it. I always knew you would do it. I'm so happy for you and all this other stuff. And

00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:35.000
they probably think like, Man, I wish I could do that. And I'm like, it's not for everybody. Like, it's

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:36.000
not.

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:37.000
I'm a prime example of that. Like it can it can go the wrong way. and a lot of those messages

00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:38.000
were coming at a time where I was going the wrong way. and it would actually add to it because

00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:39.000
I'm like, wow, why why am I so depressed? Why am I so upset? Like all these people are so

00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:40.000
happy for me and they think like everything's great, like what's wrong with me?

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:41.000
Paul Salter (01:26:50.177)

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:42.000
Mm.

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.000
Kris Basmagy (01:27:05.546)

00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:44.000
So yeah, that was an that was another level to it while I was going through that period of period

00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:45.000
of my life.

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:46.000
Paul Salter (01:27:11.319)

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.000
What did success cost you?

00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:48.000
Kris Basmagy (01:27:23.032)

00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.000
This is gonna sound dramatic, but twenty years of my life that I could have lived differently.

00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:50.000
Twenty years of my life that I wasted w not focusing on myself, worrying about the wrong things,

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:51.000
not being present, just not taking care of myself, not being honest, not being vulnerable,

00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:52.000
You know, that was the biggest thing that I had a hard time with during the IOP program is like

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:53.000
the rumination of the past and living with a ton of regret and how I live my life. you know, I say

00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:54.000
that now and it like it's still it still hurts, but like it's true. Like there was a a substantial I'm you

00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.000
know, I'm thirty-two years old, like it's not that long, but like fifteen, twenty years of my life is a

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:56.000
large chunk of my life and a lot of really formative years of my life that

00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:57.000
I mean, I still got a lot accomplished, but there was a lot that could have been done differently.

00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:58.000
And all I had to do was just like be open to vulnerability, just have conversations with people, be

00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:59.000
honest and like just work on myself and just like stop ignoring all the signs that I knew were

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:00.000
there. Right? Like it it c things could have been a lot easier for me. And I can only imagine what

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.000
they would have looked like if I never got to this point.

00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:02.000
Paul Salter (01:28:44.985)

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:03.000
What do you regret most?

00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:04.000
Kris Basmagy (01:29:01.71)

00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:05.000
Like I said, I I just really regret not being present in the moment. A lot of things a lot of things

00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:06.000
from those that period of time is really fuzzy for me because I was just up in my own head the

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.000
entire time thinking about a lot of other things other than what I was constantly currently doing in

00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:08.000
that specific moment. And I just would have been happier.

00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:09.000
in those moments if I would have just focused on that and just ha had been present, like I keep

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:10.000
saying it over and over and over and over again, but like I've seen such a positive change in my

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:11.000
life from just focusing on that specifically that I'm just like, man, I wish I could grab that, you

00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:12.000
know, twenty year old kid and just be like it's not that you know it

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:13.000
Paul Salter (01:29:52.515)

00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:14.000
What would you tell him?

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:15.000
Kris Basmagy (01:29:56.554)

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:16.000
Kris Basmagy (01:30:03.244)

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:17.000
I would tell that

00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:18.000
Kris Basmagy (01:30:08.714)

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:19.000
Maybe not what happened to you, but what happened around you wasn't your fault as a kid. It

00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.000
wasn't your fault. Like you didn't know

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:21.000
You didn't know. You weren't equipped with the tools. You were super young. You developed a

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:22.000
mechanism that unfortunately and unfortunately you saw positive outcomes from and a lot of

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.000
success from. to survive that period and understand it the best that you could. But you know,

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:24.000
just 'cause it happened to you, d it's not it's not your fault. You didn't choose this.

00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:25.000
Like it was just like an adaptation to the environment that you found yourself in and you know,

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:26.000
stop blaming yourself. Stop being your own worst critic, stop being so hard on yourself. People

00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:27.000
still say that to me to this day. I'll still be super hard on myself about specific things, but it's a lot

00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.000
less than it was back in the day.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.000
Paul Salter (01:31:07.629)

00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:30.000
Looking ahead, what are you doing to make sure success no longer costs you what matters

00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.000
most?

00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:32.000
Kris Basmagy (01:31:16.91)

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:33.000
showing up and doing the work. I remember when I got discharged from my IOP program the

00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:34.000
last day, I said that the one thing that I've realized is that this is a lifelong journey. This is

00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.000
This is not like take a pill band-aid. This is not like show up at a therapy session on a Monday

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:36.000
and everything's okay for the next six months. This is like intentionally choosing every single day

00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:37.000
to do the work. Intentionally choosing to sit and meditate for 10 minutes because maybe I feel

00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:38.000
good right now, but I need it. I need to center myself a little bit.

00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:39.000
15 minutes of doing stretching exercises at the gym to get all the tension out of my back, which

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:40.000
has always been a really big issue for me. you know, showing up to the sessions that I do once

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:41.000
a month now just to kind of check in, because I've luckily gotten myself to the point where I only

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.000
have to be there once a month and it's generally worked pretty well because I have all these

00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.000
things I do throughout the week.

00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:44.000
It's, you know, I've used golf as the biggest outlet for just me personally, like being super

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:45.000
focused on things and not allowing that anger to seep back in, not allow like focusing on like I'll

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:46.000
sit and I do mechanics drills all day long. I'll go to the range and I'll be very intentional with what

00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.000
I'm doing. And like the one thing that I practice all the time, I always tell myself is like

00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:48.000
Allow yourself to fail at a shot. Like be open to failing at the shot instead of like sitting there

00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.000
trying to control it the whole time. Like, know that it's gonna happen. Don't get angry about it.

00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:50.000
Because then you'd ruin the game for yourself. And like when I started approaching it like that,

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:51.000
it's done wonders for my mental health because it used to be the worst. I used to be the guy to

00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:52.000
throw the club and hit my bag and pretend to snap it over my knee, and that got nothing

00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:53.000
accomplished. so yeah.

00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.000
Paul Salter (01:33:01.281)

00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.000
Mm-hmm.

00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:56.000
Paul Salter (01:33:20.181)

00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.000
Imagine that one of our listeners today is quietly carrying the same burden that you were

00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:58.000
carrying for so long. What's the message that you hope he really takes away or needs to hear

00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:59.000
from this conversation?

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:00.000
Kris Basmagy (01:33:36.879)

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.000
You're not alone. There's probably many other people in the very similar situation. I think a trap

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:02.000
that we all fall into is thinking that our problems and our issues are our own and nobody else

00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:03.000
understands them and nobody else has ever experienced them before. Because that is what I

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:04.000
used to tell myself all the time. And when you fully understand that it's not you alone and that

00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:05.000
people have gone through it, I've gone through it.

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:06.000
It's a lot easier to be vulnerable. It's a lot easier to own it. It's a lot easier to just go and and do it.

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:07.000
Because the answer to would be just go do it. Do not hesitate. I lied to myself for years and told

00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:08.000
myself, I don't have a problem. That guy has a problem. I know what a problem looks like.

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:09.000
Movies show me what a problem looks like. TV shows show me what a problem looks like. You

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:10.000
want to see a problem? Charlie Sheen, right? I'm not Charlie Sheen. I had a problem.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.000
A big time one that almost took basically a life that people would kill to build and r throw it all

00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:12.000
away and rip it apart and start from scratch, literally alone by myself. And I was blindly just

00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.000
walking off a ledge, thinking that like I was doing the right thing, thinking that I was successful,

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:14.000
thinking that, well, if I just do this.

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:15.000
That will just go away. And it never happened.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:16.000
Paul Salter (01:35:08.313)

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.000
Hmm. Kris, thank you so much. No, dude. I I'm I think that needs to be the definitive message

00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:18.000
people need to hear is do the work on yourself. Do the work.

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.000
Kris Basmagy (01:35:09.582)

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.000
It never happened until I did the work. Sorry, go ahead.

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.000
Kris Basmagy (01:35:21.878)

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:22.000
It doesn't end. It never ends. It's a lifelong journey. I have friends that I've come to know

00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:23.000
because of all the work that I've done that were addicts in the past. Now they're sober. And I ask

00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:24.000
them, I said, what's the difference? And they're like, there is no difference. You know what the

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.000
difference is? Is I choose every day not to fall back into that trap. Every day I choose not to go

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:26.000
down that path. The thoughts are still there. But I choose not to grab onto them.

00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:27.000
And it's the same for mental health. It's the same for for any I mean, substance abuse is mental

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:28.000
health, they go hand in hand, but people think they're separate things, they're not.

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:29.000
Paul Salter (01:35:58.105)

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:30.000
Thank you for your courage, your vulnerability and your honesty today.

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.000
Kris Basmagy (01:36:02.627)

00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:32.000
Thank you for offering a space for it. You know, if you would have told me I did this, I was doing

00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:33.000
this ten years ago, I would have told you you're crazy. But you know what? It it the message

00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.000
needs to be out there, man. And I appreciate you offering the space for it.

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:35.000
Paul Salter (01:36:09.729)

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:36.000
Mm-hmm.