I Built My Family a Better Life – But Wasn't There to Live It With Them | Tom Warner

0:02 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HE LEARNED AT AGE 10: IF YOU WANT MORE, WORK MORE… Tom, you were hustling to make your own money. By the time you were 10 years old, why did you start working so young? Tom Warner: because didn't have a choice. didn't grow up with a lot of wealth without a doubt. And you know, my parents you know got married early for different reasons and you know and they didn't have a lot of money and you know we used my dad used to tell me if you want something you gotta go out and get it yourself pretty much. You know, he used a different expression. I don't how how how explicit we can be, but you know if you need to believe it sure. Paul Salter: Be explicit, what do you say? Tom Warner: So he used to tell me all the time, expect in one hand and shit in the other and see what you end up with. so it was kinda like you we had no expectations that we would get anything as kids and you know, and as I said, we you know, it's not like I didn't have food on the table. It's just that there was there wasn't extra money, you know, as we used to say. My mom used to feed us for you know, thirty thirty cents with a pound of hamburger and a hamburger helper or can of tuna and tuna helper and you know, you didn't know any better. You were a kid, you ate so.

0:46 Paul Salter: Mm. Paul Salter: Take me back. Was there an explicit conversation you remember about your mom or dad setting the tone that you needed to work to have any spending money? Tom Warner: I I think it was more of I was just an eager kid and and you know, and obviously you had other kids around you that had other things and you know, and and I guess kinda knew that you weren't gonna get a lot of those other things that, you know, some of these other kids had. So you're like, Well, I'm just gonna do what I need to do and you know, and and I think it originally, you know, I'm not gonna say it was a joke, but it was kind of implied that hey, you gotta work hard in life and you know, it and it just kinda That's that's what stemmed from it. And I like, Okay, well I'll figure it out.

1:53 Paul Salter: What did having money at age ten represent for that little boy? Tom Warner: I mean no if it was it it was just the ability to do something that you probably weren't allowed to do. How about that? Paul Salter: Tell me more about that, not allowed to do. Tom Warner: Well, meaning you know, i it's not like at ten or eleven, you you don't have you know, if you want to go out and buy a toy, you know, you don't have the ability to do that, but yet, you know, you perhaps peers have some of those things and stuff like that. So I think having the ability to then use your own money and and your parents not to really have the ability to say, No, you can't buy that or you can't get that because you went out and hustled for it. So you know, it might have been a sorry game, you know, something Paul Salter: So it's interesting. You already used the word hustle. And you know, your paper route was unique in that, you know, you're going around and just you have to learn how to be creative enough to convince these prospective customers to renew, to keep purchasing the paper. Looking back, what did that little boy begin to learn about his effort, the impact it had, and the amount of money he could make through persistence?

3:07 Tom Warner: Yeah, it was a it was so it was it was the only paper I you could get as a younger kid. so it wasn't like you could go out and get whatever my area was like the carrier post of the inquire. they were like truly paid subscription ones where you went around and collected and you had to pay money to the paper and so forth. This was a free paper that went out to everybody once a week and you know, and and you had to do coupons and you know, these coupons were you really got made money, you got paid, you know. smittance for actually delivering the paper. But yeah, you go around and and basically convince people if they wanted to continue to get the paper, they would yeah, you'd give them collect fifty cents or a dollar or whatever it was back then. And you know, you'd go around once or twice a month and and you'd knock on doors trying to get people to, you know, basically give you money and you got to keep all of it. So it was you know, if you if you didn't do that then you really didn't make any money you're delivering these papers for hardly anything and And if not, you went around, you were able to make, you know, twenty, thirty, forty bucks, you know, in in your little area.

4:10 Paul Salter: So I hear direct input equals direct output. The more doors I knock on conversations I have, theoretically that should lead to more dollars in my pocket, right? Tom Warner: One hundred percent. And that's you know, that was ingrained, you know, probably very early in life. because of that reason. you know, as I that's you know, you know, hindsight's always twenty twenty. But yeah, I mean that's probably where I just learned on hey, if you wanna get something, go out and do it and don't be afraid to you know, somebody says no, knock on the next door. Paul Salter: Yeah, interesting. So when you did earn money, what did you tend to do with it at that age? Did you save it, spend it, give it away?

4:53 Tom Warner: a little bit of both. I I definitely save for bigger things. So you know, like one of the things I wanted to grow up and learn how to do was learn how to sail. we lived by a pretty good sailing river called Cooper River in Pennsylvania. And you know, they used to race sunfishes and and and different boats up and down the river right there. And and so I actually saved enough money to buy a sailboat from the time I was like fourteen. And you know, I did some sailboat racing, took a bunch of lessons and Yeah, was part of you know something that once again would have never been bought for me. I'm sure my parents helped me out a little bit. but but yeah, it was you know, I I bought that first boat. I think it was probably nine hundred bucks, a thousand dollars back then. Yeah.

5:35 Paul Salter: Who who taught you the value of kind of this long term saving versus, you know, short term irrational spending? Tom Warner: you know what? I I think it was just some of it was just natural. I mean, 'cause you know, my parents would somewhat make me save a little bit of it. especially when I earn started earning you know a little bit more money, 'cause I went on to better paper routes and and we actually did make more tips and stuff like that on a regular basis. But You know, it was partly them and and partly just, you know, I I knew if you wanted something bigger you had to save. So, you know, I would go out and look at prices of things and be like, Okay, how much money do I have? And I would just I'd be like, Okay, if I really want to get this, you know you gotta save so much.

6:19 Paul Salter: Yeah. How much was your propensity to work hard to earn more and save indicative of your desire to have more versus making sure you never had to experience the feeling of not having enough? Tom Warner: I think it was more so the experience of I wanna call safety. so it's you know it and and also having the knowledge knowing that hey, if you grind you can make more money and if you get into a bind, you just you grind your way out of it. Paul Salter: fascinating you say that. I mean I've you've used the word hustle already, you've used the word grind multiple times. Where did you observe this grind mentality growing up?

7:07 Tom Warner: so I think a good part of it came from my mom. so yeah, so when we grew up, my mom was a hairdresser and she literally worked out of our house. So it was literally our so you know, I I would come home from school and she'd have clients there and and even into the evening and stuff like that. And, you know, it was if we wanted to go somewhere or go on a vacation, she just she would work till eleven o'clock at night. you know, literally doing people's hair just to make extra. Paul Salter: Mm. Paul Salter: Yeah. Tom Warner: people. So and then she went into real estate later in my, you know, so my teenage years is when I feel like, you know, my family finally started to have more money and and, you know, I'm gonna call it because she went out and hustled. She pro when I was probably twelve or thirteen, she got into real estate. And so, you know, she's you know, it was a slow grind building a book and so forth, but you know, she was she became very successful at it.

8:00 Paul Salter: It interesting. You said something in our preparation for this that, you know, entrepreneurial wiring is partly innate, something you're born with. But then the other part is what you observe and what you're exposed to in the house you are raised in. As you reflect back on those, you know, childhood, teenage years, what did your parents model specifically about hardware? Tom Warner: you know, it was it was always ingrained. So you remember my parents grew up in a small town in Scranton, Pennsylvania. It's a coal miners town. And so, you know, it was hard work was what people did. That's what they only knew, and that's what they told me, is that you know, you work hard, keep your nose clean and and you'll have success. and so that was kind of what was, you know, the the the mentality because that's what they knew.

8:50 Paul Salter: What did they model for you about rest or play? Tom Warner: that's a good question. I don't know if they've modeled necessarily rest. I mean, we did get to go on vacations here and there and and you know, so I I think it was more so my mom where you know, if you and she would tell me if if you know, I've she would say, I'm working till eleven o'clock at night and you know, we might need to fend for ourselves for have a hot dog for dinner. but it was, you know, and she would make sure that she was known that hey you know, if you we're gonna go on vacation, we need extra money and this is why I'm doing it. So you gotta help out, you gotta do certain things. Paul Salter: Yeah. What'd your parents do when money got tight?

9:35 Tom Warner: you know what as a kid growing up, I I don't think I ever was exposed to that other than the fact that probably later in life, you know, you hear stories and and you know, you know, they literally I mean they moved to New Jersey from Scranton with I think seventeen my dad said, you know, in their pocket. so it was, you know, I I don't think I was ever Paul Salter: Yeah. Tom Warner: I ever knew money and I'll say this, I don't think I ever knew money was as tight as it was when I was a child. they did a great job of kind of covering it up, so to speak. letting us know that. so you know, so I it's I I can't say that I really know that it was that tight. That's until after the fact, if that makes sense. Paul Salter: Hmm.

10:24 Paul Salter: Understand that very deeply. Like I I have I would similarly describe my childhood. I had everything I needed and most of what I wanted. Let me make that clear. But there were moments during, you know, the dot-com burst, the recession where, like looking back, I'm like, mom and dad were struggling and they didn't show it. So for you, as now that you have the knowledge being many more years removed, take us to a moment where now that you know mom and dad were struggling, can you pinpoint anything different in how they talked about money, their behavior? Tom Warner: I would think if anything, it would be more so perhaps some of the actions where, you know, I could I can remember a classic example. So, you know, because if we're talking the seventies here, you had carpeting in your kitchen and Stanley Steamer Stanley Steamer came in and steamed the carpets in our house. You know, we had shagged and carpets all over and you know, and literally the the day after Stanley Steamer came in and and our kitchen was not big. We had this little booth table and and somehow something happened and and I think my sister was you know tipped the table or something and mustard went flying and I remember my dad going nuts because they had literally had just paid for it and I'm sure they had saved to get sailed steamer to come in and now he's he's scraping mustard off the carpet, you know, trying to No, probably going berserk because, you know that was Yeah, so I mean you know it's things like that when you look at it and you know where you know. He would get upset when things happened when they had spent Paul Salter: Yeah. So as you really reflect on that ten year old's experience, beginning the paper route, the next few years, working himself up to bigger paper routes. Do you think in hindsight that as a young boy you learned simply that hard work pays off? Or was it something closer to if I want to feel secure, I better be willing to outwork everybody?

12:18 Tom Warner: it it was actually both. you know, because you know, at least in the beginning, it's the more people subscribe to your paper, the more potential tips you get, the more papers you deliver, you get paid per paper. so a little bit of going out and selling a little bit of that. and you can kind of control your own destiny, but also, hey, if you do a better job than everybody else, which is the harder work part of it. you will you will be get the next meeting, i.e., you go from the suburban to the carrier post to the fire where you made the most amount of money delivering papers. You do the best job. Make sure aren't wet. Make sure, you know, on rainy days they're in the door versus being make sure they're in plastic bags, you know, and that type of y you go the extra mile to make sure that you are doing the best you can do. You know? And yeah. And then you become, you know, then you get asked to be Paul Salter: Yeah, that makes sense.

13:12 Tom Warner: the the root leader. So now all of a sudden all the papers get dropped off at your so you make some extra money for making sure that you count everybody's papers out. You know? so it's yeah little things like that. That's where the work hard part of it came through and where you get rewarded for that. Paul Salter: Mm. Paul Salter: So again, just a multiple levels I hear, you were learning and internalizing hard work leads to more money, better results, more leadership opportunity. So as long as I'm putting in the work, I'm willing to grind, success, results, and achievement are quick to follow. Tom Warner: Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, I'm not sure about quick, but they're definitely do follow. 'cause I don't use the word quick on that in that scenario.

13:53 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HIS FAMILY DIDN’T TALK ABOUT FEELINGS. THEY WORKED HARDER… Yeah, totally fair. I want to go back to the mustard situation what for a moment there. Something I wanted to ask is, okay, you mentioned your dad was probably incredibly mad, yelling angry at the situation. When something was challenging in your house, did people talk about how they felt or did they just put their head down, work harder and simply keep moving? Tom Warner: Yeah. Tom Warner: I'm not sure we talked about how we felt. I think it was more so, you know, there was some I'm gonna call it more anger moments and things like that. but it was it was no, it was, you know, it it it's you you gotta go the next day and it's and failure's not an option, so to speak, because you know, it's a it it's you gotta go the next day, you gotta work hard, and that's what we do. so You know, I would say more so it was just you know, suck it up and move on.

14:50 Paul Salter: Is there a moment that stands out to you where for you, like maybe you had an experience of feeling sad, angry, mad, disappointed, whatever it was? And whether directly or indirectly you were told, suck it up, move on, tomorrow's a new day. Tom Warner: i you know, I'm not sure I can think of a a specific, but I mean there there're certainly times in my life where I look at it and say, you know, it was you know, it it here's this is life, you know, welcome to life and and as you get older it was more so hey, this is what happens in life and you have to accept these things and and you know, and your choice is is not to move on, or or you know, you don't have a choice not to move on, I should say.

15:35 Paul Salter: What did vulnerability look like in your family growing up? Tom Warner: it probably weak. so yeah, it's you know, it was a you know, it was almost like you I'm not gonna say you put on a front, but you didn't you y you were strong and and you know, it was and you've gotta put up and and you know, it's you know, and I played sports and everything growing up. I wasn't I wasn't this, you know, star athlete or anything like that. So I think you know, part of my solace was was finding those other things that we did well. You know, have the ability to work hard and stuff like that. And, you know, probably that's one of the things that that leads me today is is you you you ex focus on what you do really well.

16:25 Paul Salter: If vulnerability was more or less synonymous with weakness, were there consequences for being vulnerable or showing weakness while growing up? Tom Warner: yeah, I mean it was definitely I'm gonna call it a little bit of I I use the expression tough love. you know, whereas if there was any weaknesses, it was, you know, it was, you know, you've gotta do this. I mean, I sure there's moments when sure there was there was caring and you're a kid upset and stuff like that, but it was but you know, it was also instilled that, you know, I'll I'll use an example. So The inquiry was a morning paper. So you delivered it before school. And you know, so one of the papers that came out was, you know, the Christmas Day paper. And we delivered seven days a week. And so, you know, we used to have Christmas Eve, a big Christmas Eve dinner and stuff like that. Of course, papers were there. And, you know, but it was, hey, you know what, let me drive you around. It's it's Christmas, so you don't have to wake up on Christmas morning early. I'll drive you around at, you know, midnight or 1 a.m. and we'll drop papers. so It was things like that where you got encouragement, but it was encouragement also to, you know, it was around, you know, grades or working or things of that nature.

17:45 Paul Salter: So of the traits that you inherited during childhood, which became your greatest edge or advantage professionally? Tom Warner: definitely watching my mom in real estate. I think that was one of the biggest drivers was you know, as I said, she worked hard, she hustled, she had a great personality, and and you know, relating to people and and watch her because she really went from being what I call a hairdresser to a what I say very successful, very successful in real estate. and you know, so I think probably if I was to pull one thing, that was probably what shaped a lot of and watching her have the ability to do that, to go from, you know, literally being on her feet twelve hours a day to, you know, making, you know, twenty times what she was making as a hairdresser in eight. and watching her do that. That probably was one of the biggest, I'm gonna call it shifts or drivers that I looked at. And that's probably what really even gave me and she worked hard. I mean, she would she would show up seven days a week if she needed to.

18:51 Paul Salter: you closest to growing up? And maybe the better way to phrase it is like who was your safer space to sh bring good news and challenges as a young boy? Mom or dad? Tom Warner: Probably mom. Yeah. You know, yeah, it's probably mom just because you know, she was a little bit more compassionate. so yeah, it was but you know, my dad was a disciplinarian, things went wrong, you know. Yeah with dad, things of that nature. It was a typical nineteen seventies household. Paul Salter: Okay. TITLE CARD: STRONG MEN DON’T TALK ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS… Paul Salter: Yeah. So we talked about, you know, you've had incredible work ethic, ambition, and ability to grind modeled for you. It served you really well in building your career ever since. As you think about some of the traits you might have inherited from your upbringing, which do you feel has cost you the most personally?

19:44 Tom Warner: the I'm gonna call it shutting things down, if that makes sense. So when things aren't going right, probably my biggest, you know, I if I look at say my personal attribute is is not having the ability to I'm gonna call it internal or maybe externalize emotions or things of that nature. So bottling things up is probably the easiest way to s phrase it. yeah, that's probably my hardest and most most difficult trait that causes me problems. Yeah, still to this day, you know, meaning it's just you work through it and and just forget it. Almost like put it in the back of your head and and it's not important to to handle.

20:36 Paul Salter: And you learned that from who or specifically where? Tom Warner: Probably learn that from my dad. probably a little bit of my mom, but more so probably my dad. that you know, it's there's there's just not there's not a place for that, you know, as as it goes back to that weakness thing or you know, where and I'd probably say that's more so it is is emotions are probably weaker as an individual, and and you know, that's not what a a strong person does. Paul Salter: Mm. Paul Salter: So we fast forward now. You've almost been, it it seems like raised in this perfect environment to go on and have the success you've had today because work ethic, you you absolutely need a work ethic to have that next level success. You and I, everybody listening knows that. So you're in this pressure cooker of developing these entrepreneurial intangibles that go on to serve you well. And we fast forward to a chapter of your life where you're doing well in the restaurant industry. Industry, excuse me, a friend convinces you to go into the financial space, and in a quick amount of time, you go from nearly six figures a year to a single paycheck of 24 cents on Christmas Eve. Take us into that moment.

21:56 Tom Warner: that was not one of my better moments. needless to say, year before I was, you know, the hero gave out the best Christmas gifts in the entire world. was didn't really have any money because you know I had started in the business in May, and here it was Christmas, and and you know, you kind of get told one thing, you're like, there's a salary, but it really wasn't a salary, it was more of a draw, and and then they took out of your draw that they really about when he got into the business until you're like and and yeah and you end up with a 24 cent paycheck as I told everybody is if if my good friend who was my boss at the time and we're still best friends today if he was in the office because of course he wasn't in the office because he was home with his family and I was working and I I probably would have been fired because there probably would have been a physical altercation and Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HE WENT FROM INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL TO A 24 CENT PAYCHECK… Paul's right there. Take us to that day. You see that check. It's Christmas Eve. You it almost seems you have, in my words, fallen from grace, best Christmas gift giver ever, to I've got pennies to provide for my family. Like, what was that young man feeling the moment he saw that paycheck?

23:09 Tom Warner: probably probably the most anger, frustrated, disappointed feelings that I may have ever had. meaning I literally I I'm I c I I I can't remember many times where I was just distraught and I literally was distraught. it was You know, I I I don't get the sensation of failure very often, but it was definitely one of those ones where you're like, What am I doing? I you know, how why did I do this? You second guess everything that you've done from where you've been to where you're going. And and you know, I also say hindsight, those are life defining moments. but but yeah, it was it was it was pretty bad. It was it you question I'm like, what am I literally you question, what am I doing? and and Am I an idiot? I you know.

24:06 Paul Salter: How close are you to quitting? Tom Warner: I was I if part of me is actually says that if if my friend was in the office, I probably would have quit. Tom Warner: So yeah, so the answer is I was I was done. I mean, most people, so you gotta remember when we started in this business, one out of a hundred made it. so like and and I get it, meaning, yeah, if you unfortunately I was single and and and yeah, was younger and so it was I I could suck it up and and do this twenty four cent paycheck. But the the short answer is that you know, we If I had a family, there's no way. Like I I would have quit immediately. I would have been like, I gotta get a new job tomorrow. And and so, you know, I look at it and say it was a blessing in disguise. I didn't have other responsibilities other than myself. but I I absolutely possibly would have quit.

25:06 Paul Salter: You're distraught, you're angry, you're frustrated, disappointed, probably the first most significant taste of failure you've ever experienced. What did continuing require you to believe about yourself? Tom Warner: that I was that I was better than this. That, you know, I I go, you know, and and it was going back and reflecting on, you know, I I was I was I was a regional manager helping out run 14 restaurants, you know, up and down the East Coast. I was the youngest, you know, one of the youngest, you know, kitchen managers, associate judges in another chain that I worked for. you know, that you know, I I broke ground. I was good at what I did. And you know, and it was like it was like you ca is this is this how you're gonna allow us to f you're better than this and you know you can do this.

26:03 Paul Salter: What was driving you to continue on that trajectory? Because it wasn't the money at that point. Tom Warner: No, it it was probably the success that I saw with others around me. So those who had been in the business for a while, those who were who were making and and you know, better money than I was making even in the in the rest of the world, in the old industry. And so probably when thing when the dust settled and and you know, and part of it at that point was probably also, you know. sp spent spent Thanksgiv or excuse me, Christmas with my family. And you know, probably at one point there was a conversation with either my mom or my dad or both of them questioning whether I should do this or not. And and they knew some of the friends who who were successful and and so I think there's probably some encouragement over the Christmas holiday that was, you know, you can do this and and I think that was probably part of it too. So, you know, timing up spend time with family and Paul Salter: When success eventually came, because it did, what meaning or belief came out of surviving the twenty four set cent paycheck period?

27:13 Tom Warner: Did. Tom Warner: that moments in life like that will never define me. Paul Salter: Tell me more about that. Tom Warner: I I'm a big believer that if you allow failures or I'm gonna call them roadblocks, stumbling points is probably even a better word. That was definitely a stumbling block, a big one without a doubt. if you allow those to define you in life, you'll never be successful. And so it's it's you can't you have to look at the other things in life. And and I think this is key to anyone's success is it's you know if if it's in basketball you miss a shot and it's a shot you should make because it's an easy shot, it's not gonna define you. it's you know, it's those moments that you have to say, yeah, and it's for me it's a lot easier to do in business than in personal. but not to allow those moments to define you.

28:30 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: WORK BECAME HIS SAFE PLACE TO HIDE… Pause right there. It's easier for you to do in business than your personal life. Expand on that. Tom Warner: I I don't want to say success is easy in business. it's really easy to put my nose down in business and block out the rest of the world, and everything else that goes on and focus on what I need to do to be successful in my business and serve clients. it's not easy in personal life to do that. 'Cause you're dealing with a lot of outside influence and emotions and things of that nature. So for s you know, business has always been a safe place if that makes sense.

29:18 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HE COULD CONTROL WORK. HE COULDN’T CONTROL HOME… Does make sense. So for you, where did the challenge and difficulty emerge in your personal life? Tom Warner: You can control everything. Well, all right, let me let me recant that say you can control a lot of things in business. you can't control things in your personal life. So as a successful person who has driven their own success, driving their own and working harder and being able to control all those things, it's easy to do, but you can't do that in your personal life. Because you don't have control over other people's decision making as when you're running an organization.

30:05 Paul Salter: Which is interesting. It's full circle. We talked about earlier, that young boy learning, hey, I if my input is ten, my output will be ten, or you know, ten X, whatever it may be. And it's measurable, it's predictable to an extent in business, that same ratio or equation does not apply to the personal life. There's different emotions, different relational, familial, societal expectations and implications. So what I hear from you is far more control and predictability in business, which are two potent ingredients for safety, comfort, whereas at home you lacked that. So it was easier to fall into work as an escape. Tom Warner: one hundred percent. You can't put a smart test to your family.

30:48 Paul Salter: Might not go over well. Now, do you feel you've demonstrated this ability to grind? You know, when a problem arises at the office, you work through it, you work harder until you figure it out. So before I ask about your ability to grind in your personal life, whether it be as a husband, as a father, you told me before we hit record that Tom Warner: No. Paul Salter: One of the things you're most proud of professionally is your ability to grind through difficult times. And you that 24 cent paycheck is such an iconic defining moment for you. TITLE CARD: WHAT MADE HIM SUCCESSFUL AT WORK HURT HIM AT HOME… Why does your capacity to grind and endure make you proud?

31:29 Tom Warner: it's it's a little bit like a taskmaster. So meaning I know if I set out goals and objectives and you know professionally, I c I will achieve this, without a doubt. I may not hit them all the time in exactly the time that I want them, but we will eventually get to every one of those goals. So it's almost you know, I don't need someone to inspire me for my business goals. So mean you tell me, hey, you've got to do X, Y, and Z. If if I if my coach says or my you know, someone who I one of my peers who's more successful than I am says, this is what I do and I turn around and make the decision that we're gonna implement that, I will do it. it's that. so Like that's never been a challenge. Self-motivation has never been a challenge. and I don't and you know, fortunately, because I don't allow once again, maybe my downtrait, maybe I don't allow some emotions to get involved. And some people may say I don't have enough empathy. you know, it's that's part of what or how I've built my success.

32:47 Paul Salter: Did you ever take that same taskmaster taskmaster philosophy and apply it at home in your marriage, in raising your kids? Tom Warner: I've tried and failed. I mean Paul Salter: Tell me more. Give me like an example there. Tom Warner: it's you know, especially in my marriage, my wife is the opposite of me. So meaning, you know, she was she is a teacher, she was a kindergarten teacher. so you know, we come from very different spectrums of the world professionally and emotionally, we're probably two very different people. and you know, so it's really hard to apply those. You've just got to drive through it mentality. you know, when it comes to I'm gonna call it parenting and and you know, your kids certainly don't respond that way. And you know, they want more emotion sometimes and and that's you know, it's always hard to flip that switch when you walk in the door when that's what you do. You know, unfortunately, you know, in the beginning of my career for ninety hours a week, you know, you just walk in and you're expected just to flip the switch and it's it's challenging.

33:57 Paul Salter: sort of time that stands out to you where there's a problem at home and you have the best of intention to solve it, but now in hindsight you recognize you were bringing that professional hat home to try to solve it and you first realized, th this isn't working. TITLE CARD: HIS WIFE FINALLY TOLD HIM: “WE’RE NOT YOUR EMPLOYEES…” Tom Warner: Sure, because my wife would tell me, she, you know, she would look at me and she'd say, We're not your employees. and you know, and and sometimes sometimes I would just be like, Great, I have work to do, I'll just go escape, you know, so to speak. so you know, downside is yeah, we use work to escape sometimes when you're in this situation and that's what you do. and you deal with avoidance. Paul Salter: Mm.

34:43 Paul Salter: What were you avoiding specifically in some of those challenging moments? Tom Warner: probably just, you know, I'm gonna call it family challenges, marital challenges, you know, every marriage goes up and down and and probably we weren't at our peaks and we were at our lows. which, you know, if anybody tells me they don't, I tell them they're lying. and you know, probably it's real easy for me to do avoidance and just be like, I've got stuff that I need to do instead of dealing with the issue. I because I can't turn that off sometimes. Paul Salter: And again, we kind of alluded to it earlier. That's become one of your superpowers. Mom especially modeled it for you. And you learned early on if I work, I can make money or have success. The harder I work, the more money, the more success. and by the way, if I outwork my competitors, even more opportunity awaits me. TITLE CARD: his ability to grind afforded him a lot – but cost him even more… At this point in your life, as you look back, what has this ability to grind and outwork most people given you?

35:52 Tom Warner: it's certainly giving us, you know, a very nice lifestyle. it's given us lots of fabulous things. you know, we've we've we've taken lots of nice vacations and and done everything. you know, the work hard play hard is definitely a mantra in my household. and but yeah, it's also come at a cost. Paul Salter: What's it cost you? Tom Warner: I i you know, I I wasn't there for dinner f five nights a week. I I as I said, I was working sixty, seventy, eighty, ninety hours a week and you know, I had two kids at home and and you know, it was kids were in bed before I got to bed. Maybe you know they're off in the morning and I'd say hello to and and you know. but you know, I would work till one in the morning sometimes. And so Paul Salter: Hm.

36:51 Tom Warner: It was a you know, you see them in the morning, you leave and then you don't see your kids again until the next morning. Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HE THOUGHT PROVIDING MADE HIM A GOOD FATHER… When your children were young and your careers accelerating, what did being a good father mean to you at that time? Tom Warner: probably providing because that was what I was that's a learned trait my father, you know, was you for your family. and you know, probably once again that goes back to my grandparents and and that Scranton mentality is that was your role. I still kind of you know, as archaic as it may be, I'm still a believer that you know that someone needs to be the provider in the family. Provides stability. Yeah, and maybe perhaps more stability financially than than than emotionally.

37:50 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HIS MISSED THEIR CHILDHOOD FOR “THEM…” Yeah, I mean that's that's great awareness there. I really admire you connecting that so quickly. I agree. So when you miss dinners or when you miss sporting events as your kids got older, what did you tell yourself those sacrifices were for? Tom Warner: it was so that my kids could have a better life than I did, which is what you always want for your children. you want them to experience more things. So, you know, my whole justification, my mind was, well, we're gonna do things you know better. I'll use an example. We had the ability, you know, when my kids were probably 14, you know, took a two-week trip to Japan. It was a very expensive trip. It was the first we've ever taken, you know, it was amazing. And it was not a cheap trip. but you know, I looked at it and said I justified it by saying, well, I gave my kids the experience that probably most people in their entire life would never have that experience. And so as I always, you know, part of my justification, honestly, Paul, was was if I died and what would my kids say? My kids would say, Well, yeah, he worked a whole lot and and maybe we didn't see him enough, and maybe he wasn't that involved. But when we did things, they were amazing and and we'll always remember the trips or going skiing or doing something that we did. And probably that was my justification of not being there for so many things was to build the memories for those weeks that we went away or something like that. So that they would turn around and say, Well yeah, it was but that was awesome. Yeah. You know, and maybe that would maybe that would be enough, so to speak.

39:33 Paul Salter: Did you ever ask them whether they wanted the thing you were sacrificing to give them as much as they wanted you? Tom Warner: I'm not sure I've ever asked that question. If you asked my wife that question, she'd probably tell me that they wanted me more than they wanted those things. as she expressions used to say all the time was you walk in the house and it was, you know, like the the Christ is back on the earth and they were so excited and and yeah, that's all they wanted for, but yet she provided for them every day. Seven days a week, fed them, changed them, bathed them, did I walked in the world stopped.

40:18 Paul Salter: What was that like for you? Tom Warner: well it was great. I mean, I knew my kids loved me out and and things of that. did it create a little bit of tenacity in our in our in our marriage, sure. I think my wife was almost resentful that she did everything and and but yet I walked in and you know, it was like I could do no wrong. you know, and so I'm sure that created some challenges in our marriages as we go through and you know, So it was, you know, it's it's it was great though. I think I appreciated it as much as I probably should have. The answer's probably no, because my stress level was, you know, just too high and and I probably didn't come out of that mindset quick enough. so I probably appreciate that as much as I should have.

41:13 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HIS BUSINESS GOT HIS BEST. HIS WIFE GOT WHAT WAS LEFTOVER… So you alluded to this toll potentially of resentment, potentially disconnect, miscommunication between you and your wife, because admittedly, you're just using work to escape when the going gets tough. As that continued, you know, tell us more about how that hindered your relationship with your wife. Like what did this propensity to grind and when a problem arose grind harder? How did it impact your marriage? Tom Warner: I think you know, probably creates distance, probably create of lack of communication. because you don't really I'm gonna say I didn't spend the time, you know, specifically working those things because generally when I come home I'm exhausted. talk to people all day long and you know, I don't want to talk anymore. Paul Salter: Hm.

42:11 Tom Warner: So it's easy to, you know, I'm gonna call it avoid it and you know, and so but just not put the is, you know, let's face it, y between exhaustion and and just physically and mentally being drained at the end of the day, sometimes you don't want to. and sometimes it there's a little bit of I'm gonna call it defeatism, is is are we really gonna solve anything? So Let's not make this any worse, but let's not make it any better if that makes sense. Paul Salter: Absolutely. So I'm curious, back then, as their children are still young, growing, your business is accelerating, did the younger version of you view pouring more time and energy into his marriage as a threat or an ally to his ability to grow and work on his business?

43:04 Tom Warner: probably more of a threat. And the reason why I say that is because once again, I can't control any outcome. There's too many emotions and things I can't control. So, you know, it's it's I can control the outcome of work. Paul Salter: can that lack of control at home, like what feelings did that bring up as you continue to encounter one problem after another over the years where you felt defeated or exhausted or just candidly maybe unsure of how to solve? Tom Warner: I think the probably your last statement is the is the most accurate, meaning unsure of what to do. and you know, and not having the ability to either say the right things or have the right emotions or, you know, truly work on it. And so I think that's probably what, you know, then leads you to, you know.

43:50 Paul Salter: Mm. Tom Warner: Not having that proper balance if that makes sense. That was no balance. Paul Salter: Does. So I wanna say that again. Tom Warner: There was no balance. I mean, it was it was eighty percent work and twenty percent personal. I mean, and and unfortunately to be successful sometimes that's what it takes, you know, and that's just not just entrepreneurs, but any high performing executive person who has lots of responsibilities. I mean, I've got a friend who traveled four days a week and was never home. He was eight every day. it takes a toll on everybody.

44:42 Paul Salter: ever a candid conversation, like especially as you made the decision to get into the financial space, which I know happened before you met your wife and then shortly after you meet your career is still in the early stages. But was there a conversation about expected roles and kind of the tone set that hey, like as a husband, as a dad, I'm gonna be providing, which means I need to put this number of hours in each week? Tom Warner: Yeah, there was. Unfortunately, you know, she came from a household where her her father was, you know, he was he was ex he was an executive. He was, you know, he brought he brought two financial institutions public. you know, so wasn't, you know, he wasn't home. He was, you know, he was out doing the thing and doing rotary and and, you know, he was set on the Federal Reserve and, you know, things of that nature. you know, for Pennsylvania. So it was, you know, it was a lot of she knew that. Because her father did the same thing and and you know and she better than I did. and so I I think part of it was it was okay, if that makes sense. Not that she loved it, but Paul Salter: Absolutely. She at least had an understanding and that doesn't make it easier, but at least the awareness was there.

45:53 Tom Warner: One hundred percent. And and you know, and I'm I'll be the first one to say this is, you know, that's part of why I'm as successful as I am. 'cause I've had I've got friends who, you know, didn't make it in this business or to me just didn't be as successful as they wanted to because they didn't have that support at home. You know, it was every time they walked in the door, it was, you know, it was where the hell have you been? You know, why you know late was my middle name for, you know. Paul Salter: Mm. Tom Warner: Thirty years. Paul Salter: Do you want your legacy to be more defined by your income and impact in a professional sense or by who you were as a husband and father?

46:38 Tom Warner: I think we all would rather have it beyond the impact of who've we've who we left as a father and as a husband. it it's great. You can die with money and houses and and things of that nature. and you know, you can make generations, you know, more comfortable by leaving money behind and things of that nature. But What are you going Paul Salter: Stay with you though. Where where do you think your actions have pointed the arrow in one direction more than another? Tom Warner: the actions have definitely pointed me in the other direction. what I'm gonna call the wrong direction. Paul Salter: Why would you call it the wrong direction? TITLE CARD: THE REGRET NO AMOUNT OF MONEY CAN FIX… Tom Warner: Because when you miss all those things in your child kids' life growing up because you're working and doing everything else, and you know, you go through challenging times in your life, you question what is really the most important thing in the entire world. And did you and not being there for certain things, was that a catalyst for other things to happen? and so, you know, I know I'm successful in business. do I know I'm successful as a father? Well, when things go wrong, the answer is no, you're a failure. and you can't fix them. so does potentially then some avoidance make it worse? Or or do you just feel like, you know, is that the part of your life that you feel like you dragged you down? don't know how to handle certi certain situations. And then you I would say you look back and then you're like hindsight as well, maybe if I was around more for more of the dinners, my kids would have talked to me before things went wrong or and maybe I'd have a better relationship and a better communication with them than what I had. And you know, would things not have happened the way they did.

48:25 Paul Salter: I hear Heavy. Tom Warner: And no that it is. And it's a toll that it's a toll that I will probably go to my grave with questioning. Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: WHAT HE’D DO DIFFERENTLY… If you could do it again differently, what would you do differently? Tom Warner: I would probably make sure that I dedicated at least I'm gonna call it one or two evenings or set blocks of time where I made sure that I just I didn't work late. I didn't do those things and maybe I've given up a little bit of the success or or just probably been more upfront with people and saying, Listen. My family is equally as important as my job is so no, I'm not gonna meet you at six o'clock at night. and you know, and I I don't do that now. So, and maybe I'm trying to make up for it where, you know, I I don't do a meeting after four o'clock. So and part of that came from when my when both my kids were out of the house and off of college and so forth. I'm like, and it was an easy excuse, but I turned around and said, I can't leave my wife at home four nights a week by herself. and so that was kind of my excuse in a catalyst to change it. I would have probably made that change earlier in life than what I did today.

50:09 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: MAYBE HE DIDN’T NEED SUCCESS THAT FAST… That's very specific answer. And and I say that A to applaud you, B to reflect. It seems like you definitely have put a lot of thought into this. I hear regret. What's that feel like today as you kind of catch yourself overcompensating at times? Tom Warner: disappointed that I could be a better person than what I was as a person, and maybe not use work as the crutch or or maybe I didn't need to build success as much and as fast as I did. and things would be exactly the same in the end.

51:02 Paul Salter: Have you had any conversations about this with your children now that they are grown adults? Tom Warner: you know, it's been light conversations. it's probably been more of a comment than more of a conversation because I'm not sure, you know, my kids are twenty five and twenty-three. I I think that Probably their maturity level is not quite at the level that I think I would get a a really true, like deep hearted, retrospective answer, if that makes sense. I I still think they're still trying to figure out in their own careers and and things of that nature. And you know, so I at one point will I the answer is a hundred percent.

51:58 Paul Salter: Is it possible like at this moment there's a part of you that may fear the feedback you'd get from one of them? Tom Warner: absolutely. Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HIS DAUGHTER WALKED AWAY FROM THE LIFE HE BUILT FOR HER… So you said earlier, you know, as you were reflecting on some of the choices you made during their your children's younger years, you know, questioning was it worth it? Why did I do this? There was a period of grave difficulty with your daughter during her teenage years. And without getting into anything your daughter would want kept private, of course, like take me inside your experience. What was it like for you as a father during that period?

52:42 Tom Warner: Probably some of the hardest years of my life. you know, with the outgoing into great detail, she was bullied. social media was brand new. she went into a depression and anxiety was through the roof. you know, we she decided to not be part of our life for, you know, a period of time. And I mean it was probably a six month stretch where I didn't know where she was living. I didn't know whether she was alive. and it it consumes you. It's you you you probably have the you build your world and you have you build what you think is a life that anybody would want in this world. and your kids and any kid would say, Great, this is who wouldn't want this world, and and And you worked so hard for them and then a child makes a decision this is not the life that I want and you're not the right parent for me if this what's the mindset in my mind and and you can't help me and you know everything did was basically worthless. it it stresses you personally, it stresses you professionally, it stresses your marriage. it is and you know, when I talk about regret or failure and I go back and say, Well, if I was around more, you know, would would things be different? And the answer is I I don't know.

54:30 Tom Warner: But it's It it was it was you know, couple i and once again in maturity. I'm a big believer that maturity is a is something that everybody needs to develop and and you know, and I've had my children make the comment you don't know what it's like to be your child. and you know, they see success. and Paul Salter: Hm. Tom Warner: You know, we have a philosophy and in my that's one of my philosophies in life, but also in in what we do as a business and so forth, which is if you're not going to do it right and do it a hundred percent, don't do it at all. so yes, I set very high expectations of myself for my team. and obviously that construes out into my personal life and probably my children.

55:27 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: WHAT YOUR PURSUIT OF MORE SUCCESS IS TEACHING YOUR CHILDREN… What do you think they meant by that when they said you don't know what it's like to be your children? Tom Warner: I I think it's the internal pressure they have to have the same success that I have been able to build. and it's not like I feel like I put this pressure on my children, but I think inherently it's just part of the culture. Kind of like the culture that I grew up in, whereas you work hard. You'll get success and you know, and also I don't wanna be in that situation where we're struggling or things of that nature. So I'm never gonna let that So but unfortunately when you build more success that I I can't speak for my kids, but I'm assuming that it creates even more stress for them because they've got a much higher bar than I even had.

56:29 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HE COULD PROVIDE EVERYTHING – BUT COULDN’T FIX THIS… Hmm. Staying in that moment as someone whose identity was built partly around providing, solving problems, what was it like during your daughter's challenging times to face something that money, your professional competence, couldn't simply fix? Tom Warner: I i you're lost. You know, there's days you wonder if your daughter's gonna be with you, when depression's really bad. And and you know, what do you got what's who who do you wake up to the next day? you know. and and you wanna do things, you know, y I you know, trust me, those many sleepless nights and Where you wake up in the middle of the night and you're just like, you know, I I just gotta make sure everything's okay. and you want to provide the safety blanket that that is there's nothing you can do. I mean, it's It's it's it's extremely challenging. You know, I look at I look at my business. If you go back at my business, I could probably go back and look at it and probably end up with like this way, Paul. But if I probably look at as been stagnant, flat or negative, which we haven't had many negative years, and negative years are more like flat years. If you look at most business corporate corporations, my guess is the core of that was was around those times.

58:23 Paul Salter: Did that experience change your definition of what your children actually needed from you? Tom Warner: I I think I've tried to be, you know, and and you know, fortunately we're blessed. My daughter's, you know, a part of her life now, but I try and be, I'm gonna call it more supporting if that makes sense. than probably I was in the past. Tom Warner: You know, whether that's you know, financially, whether that's just making them feel like they're in a more confident and and a in a good spot in life. you know.

59:10 Paul Salter: What about behaviorally? What's changed? You know, aside from being able to support them financially, what what within you has changed to outwardly display that support? Tom Warner: I I think we actively attempt to do even more things together than we have in the past. So we I I make more specific time to do things with everybody. like you know, we went to a concert this past weekend and we took everybody and and we had a great you know, we took their significant others and you know, and I just bought the tickets. I'm like If and I knew everybody would want to go, but before I even knew where they were available, I'm like, you what? I saw them going on sale and we just bought tickets and I'm like, okay, does everybody want to go? And you know, I sent in a family text and everybody's like, absolutely, you know. so I think we try I try and make more I try and make more moments. I probably haven't so my mindset probably changed a little bit. It'll be like a week's vacation once a quarter. now it's do more things on a regular basis, not just on special occasion, if that makes sense.

1:00:21 Paul Salter: Consistent small deposits versus one large deposit. Tom Warner: Yeah. Yep. Paul Salter: I mean, feel feels fitting given you're in the financial industry. and I'm gonna use my own clever segue here. you do spend your life, you know, for the past three decades helping people prepare for the future, getting their finances in a row. And a few years back, suddenly your mom gets cancer. And unfortunately she passes. And suddenly you're faced with the reality that, you know, your opportunity to put this perfect plan in place may never arise. And you mentioned in our preparation that having to go through that experience really changed how you advise your clients today and how you help them better align short-term enjoyment of life versus long-term saving and preparation. Before your mom got sick, what assumptions were you making about how much time you had?

1:01:23 Tom Warner: yeah, we assumed W is gonna live to you know 85, 88. Nothing goes wrong. Just save for the future, make sure you don't run out of money in retirement. You know, it was all about making sure you're ready for that transition into retirement. you know, and you know, if you didn't save enough money going into retirement, forget it. You would never, you know, you were gonna run out of money, so to speak. And so it was really all about future. it w that's really what it was about. It wasn't it really wasn't a lot as it was all about future. And and unfortunately today there's still many advisors who make that mistake.

1:02:07 Paul Salter: For you, I mean, it's interesting, it it tracks so well with your upbringing. You know, money's tight, save for the future, save for the future, mom and dad role model. You started working at 10, you're spending a little bit, you're saving for that sailboat, but you're also learning quite early, you know, store some for the future, stash it away. What did losing your mom then teach you about the limits of your your financial approach and planning method? Tom Warner: Well, I you know, as their financial advisor, it was great, you know, she's a couple of years away from retirement and retirement's not gonna happen. And it was, you know, I did all this work for them and, you know, helped them to save and and got them on the path and there's not suspend all my clients. But then all of a sudden, you know, and and it was it was two or three occurrences and and my mom was probably the one that hit the most. I I'll give you another example in a second, but it was, you know, and and the expression that became in our household that I still use today is life's what's happening while we're making plants. and so, you know, I ingr I almost ingrained that into my practice, so to speak, because it gave me a just a different snare. when I say plan, it allowed me to understand and realize when people started saying, Well, I I don't just want to live for tomorrow. I want to spend some money today and and and where before you would be like, Well, you're just gonna be a failure in retirement. I mean, not that directly, but you know, but you get my point. And I look at it and say, Well, I I understood that and my job changed. And when I say it changed, I went from being, I'm gonna refer to it as a directive financial advisor to a consultative advisor. And it taught me to not only listen but hear better. it taught me to appreciate when someone says I'd rather take an extra vacation a year versus saving more money. And my job then is to say,

1:04:06 Paul Salter: Mm. Tom Warner: Well, that's fine. And and I can appreciate that. And I understand that. But let's just make sure we all understand. Well, that might mean you work another year or two longer. And if you're okay with that, and and I always say it's finding a better job of finding a balance in today and tomorrow. Where before, I think my mindset was always about tomorrow. And it it changed. It changed as my mom went through cancer and and Paul Salter: Yeah.

1:04:49 Paul Salter: Yeah. Tom Warner: You know, and then a year after that, you know, I'll I'll never f I'll never forget the two days. The day that my dad called me and and told me that my mom had stage four C cancer. I was in my office. I literally left my desk as if you know the world was going to stop. I was on a plane within an hour. and at that point they had, you know, they said she's gonna have less than two years to live. you know, she lived for six. she was all the way to the end. and you know, almost simultaneous through that entire time, you know, I I got a phone call one January day at work and and it was a client and and he literally picked the phone, he said, Tom, I need you to make sure you tell me my family's gonna be okay if I'm not here. And I'm like, What do you mean? And he said, I I need you and he was being very, very Paul Salter: Hmm.

1:05:53 Tom Warner: And he's like, I need you to tell me that my family is going to be okay if I'm not here. And I'm like, You're gonna be fine. We fortunately just put life insurance in place in November, literally, and this is January. And he's like, I haven't even told anybody. You're the first person I'm telling. He's like, I have a brain cancer and I have less than ten months to live. And you know, it's I always say is you know, you've reached moments like this and it it tests you because now all of a sudden, you know, we like to think of you know the financial advisor is the guy that gets us to our goals, we accomplish our goals, everything's great story. And now of a sudden we're doing all the I call it the bad sides of planning, the what if scenarios. Well, what if this happened? What if that happened? And and now you're like, Well, are these people really gonna be okay?

1:06:48 Tom Warner: And are they really going to be financially okay? Did we really put enough life insurance in place? Did we really do all the proper planning? and it you trust me, you second guess things. There's, you know, there's moments in your career you do that. We did it through 2008 in the financial crisis where two nights went through every person's account and said, Did I could have could I done anything differently? And and by the way, we did really well during that time period, but you still second guess everything you do. and I think moments like that are the ones that make you better at what you do. But I think, you know, my mom specifically made me better because I learned that not everything is gonna happen the way that we're planning it out to be. And we have we no control over that.

1:07:36 Paul Salter: I want to stay on this topic of the big shift in your philosophy from tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow to more of a congruency between today and tomorrow. But I'm curious today, hearing how much of an impact your mom had on you, how are you living life differently, professionally or personally, to best honor her? Tom Warner: I definitely have a better balance in my life than I did back then, without a doubt. I yeah, I still work a lot, but that's you know, that's part of any entrepreneur and any business owner. but I definitely make more time. I schedule things by calendar that I didn't used to schedule. so meaning, you know, I want to go out and play golf, I'll put it on the calendar and schedule it if it's a weekday. to A, not only it pre mentally prepares me that I'm taking off that time so I get my other work done, but also it's it's part of my time that I'm allowed the that I'm allowed to have.

1:08:40 Paul Salter: Cause right there, allowed to have. Did you never give yourself permission previously? Tom Warner: it was all about work. It was it was all about work. It was about you have to do this because you have to build this and you have to be more successful and and you know, you gotta grow at X percentages and stuff like that. It's just Yeah. maybe Thursday nights. Thursday night was men's league. So Thursday night we would work all day and you know you know, and Thursday nights was the night that I had that was my play night during, you know, you know, May, June and July. Paul Salter: Yeah. So going back to then, like the one of the themes of your life is w work hard for tomorrow. You know, you endure such an indescribably challenging experience. Your mom's cancer diagnosis, inevitably losing her. Your whole work philosophy changes and how you're advising clients. Your it almost seems life philosophy shifts for the better. How quickly did you start following that advice yourself about being more oriented with the now, the today, versus so consumed by the tomorrow?

1:09:50 Tom Warner: It's taken me a while. Paul Salter: Tell me more. Tom Warner: I certainly didn't jump into it. You know, part of it is is I guess there's a fear, if that if if that's the proper word. you reach a certain point where you feel like you're in a good financial situation. and I think maybe it's past milestones and things of that nature, whether it's educating kids in college and so forth and knowing that okay and then it's just you. And it feels like to me it probably changed a little bit when, you know, my son left for college. which was, you know, what now almost six years ago. So you know Knowing that okay, great, I could educate him and my I'm gonna call it my major financial responsibilities to my family were met. so probably that was the first time I took some time to really say, Okay, I I'm gonna breathe some more.

1:11:00 Paul Salter: Okay. So what I hear is, you know, this whole shift, you know, through the experience with your mom. It changed your philosophy. There was definitely a lag time before it changed your calendar. Paul Salter: What are you currently working on to continue embodying this focus on today and not so much tomorrow? Tom Warner: you know, as a financial advisor, you watch your finances all the time. Like I don't question things like I used to. you know, if my and my wife's not a spender in any way, shape, or form, but you know, it's just before I'd be paying the bills, like, what'd you do this for? What'd you do this for? And and I don't even question stuff like that anymore because she doesn't go out and spend, you know, the tons of money. We live pretty conservatively. And so you know, I like because that would just that just creates like I'm gonna call it a little bit of animosity and things of that nature and and questioning things and and questioning stuff. it's I'm not as worried about things financially as I probably used to be. as I said, I will purposely say, hey, let's go do things even when we're not planning on it, just to just enjoy life a little bit more and and things of that nature. yeah, still got a lot of work to do.

1:12:25 Paul Salter: So something you said to me as we kind of put the finishing touches on preparation for this conversation. I asked you specifically, what conversations do you wish more founders, CEOs, high achievers were having? I'm gonna read verbatim the answer you shared with me. And I'm just gonna ask you to reflect on that to see what still sticks. And what you shared was being more vulnerable and the tolls on your personal life as you build success. Focusing on more of the struggles versus the success and how they overcome it. Successful people don't like to talk about failures. It's a sign of weakness and leadership doesn't allow for weakness.

1:13:06 Paul Salter: What stands out when you hear that? Tom Warner: When you read it back, my lack of focus to my family and my personal life. that I probably could have been a better father and a better husband. Tom Warner: probably should have been there more. when I look at all that. yeah, it should have implemented a little bit more of my my mindset changed to my personal life earlier after my mom died. but I didn't. and probably just enjoying some more of the moments when they were happening. versus you know looking back at a picture and say, did I really was I really president in that time, if that makes sense. And you know, as a as an entrepreneur and as you know, I'd call it any high level leader, what people don't get is it's twenty four seven. It's y you're never off. It no one else, if when you own the company and you're the CEO, no one else Paul Salter: Does.

1:14:37 Tom Warner: You can't say, you know, someone else is gonna make a master decision. You're it. Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: WHAT IF YOUR FAMILY DOESN’T WANT WHAT YOU’RE SACRIFICING FOR…? Yeah. Do you feel at times when you were building your business, especially that all of your efforts and sacrifices were misunderstood by your family? Tom Warner: Yeah. Tom Warner: I d yeah, absolutely. I I think that they just didn't see me present or, you know, I'm still working while we're away or doing something or I'm always checking email and you know, part of me feels like they didn't understand that I was I was doing everything because I was doing it because I want to make sure that their future was just you know, way better than mine would ever be and I wanted Paul Salter: Yeah.

1:15:25 Tom Warner: I you know, I wanted to build them something. Paul Salter: Yeah. In hindsight, had you felt that it was safe to be vulnerable, do you think that would allow you to more earlier on in your career shift to a today focus versus such a tomorrow focus to be present with them? Tom Warner: A hundred percent. I mean no doubt about it. Paul Salter: How has your relationship with being vulnerable evolved over the years? Tom Warner: still challenging. Tom Warner: once again, unfortunately it's still in my mindset still a little bit of sign of weakness. So it's i is it better? It's better, but it's probably because my stress level is probably a little bit better than what it used to be.

1:16:23 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: WHY SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF CONTENTMENT… So as you reflect on the conversation, your decades of building this business, all that you've shared with me, do you believe that you fully learned how to enjoy the success that you've achieved? Tom Warner: It's getting easier. I'm still not sure it's there yet. It's it's you know, there's an expression in business if you're not growing you’re dying. So it's it's really hard not to have that mindset as an entrepreneur.

1:17:03 Paul Salter: So tell me this, your attitude or relationship with the word contentment. Tom Warner: That's not a good word. That's a bad word. Paul Salter: What does that mean if if you were to feel content? Tom Warner: You're you're giving up. Paul Salter: At what point do you think you'll feel safe to stop grinding? Tom Warner: I I don't know that'll ever come.

1:17:49 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: HE THOUGHT EARNING MORE MONEY WOULD PROTECT HIS FAMILY… So as you think about this lifelong pursuit for more, more success, more money, all with such noble ambitions, what didn't success give you that you thought it would? Tom Warner: You think that if you work really hard to do all these things, you're not gonna have major problems in your life. it's almost you you you create this mindset in your mind, it's almost like Disney, Disney World, you know, where you know, it's gonna be right because you're working really hard and you're doing this for the best part of your family and and things aren't gonna reality is that life is not Disney World. I always say it's you know. like social media bloggers out there. There's, you know, you get 30 second snippets of life and then there's the reality of life outside of the seconds you hear about all these, you know. And you know, it's a it's it's you know, I I don't I I I think we live life and and I and I try and provide and do everything I can. So Tom Warner: you're not gonna have a perfect life as much as you may think that you're going to, just like you're not gonna your business is gonna run perfectly every single day. you know, you try and control what you control, but the problem is the things that you can't control are the things that always are the obstacles.

1:19:29 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: SUCCESS COST HIM MORE THAN HE EXPECTED… What did success cost you? Tom Warner: I've you know I I'm now focusing a little bit more on my health. I think my stress levels have probably have taken, you know, probably a few years off my life. We'll see. There's different arguments and different studies on that one. but you know, I'm starting to focus more on my health, trying to get a little bit, you know, taking care of myself to alleviate some of my stress. So but I think it's it was. you know, real easy for me to neglect myself, number one. That's the easiest person to neglect. it's definitely taken, you know, a a mental toll on me. you know, and second guessing everything that I've done from being there enough for my family, not necessarily providing for my family, but I'm gonna say emotionally being there for my family. I you know, if I look back on it, that's probably the biggest toll personally for me. you know, just not physically being there, but probably not mentally being there as much as I could and should have been.

1:20:48 Paul Salter: How has your definition of success changed compared to when you first started in this industry to today? Tom Warner: when you first when I first started in this industry, it was probably all about just building the business and just, you know, and and growing the business, where I define our success as the relationships that we have. we've got when I say amazing relationships with our clients. you know, I our our business philosophy is this it's a two-way street. They share everything about their life with me, and it's only fair that I share things about With them. so very, very deep rooted relationships. I tell everybody is, you know, I've got, you know, I've got 150, 200 great friends and that do business with me. and we've got 30 year relationships with certain people. And we only work with people who value that type of relationship, and it doesn't matter how much money you have. It's people who value advice, people who value and and want to accomplish their goals and and we share same common values. to me that's more successful than necessarily, you know, taking on a client that has ten million dollars.

1:22:08 Paul Salter: What I hear then, just to reflect back to you, is early on, it was about build success was about building the business, income impact, client load, very money specific, money higher at the top of that list, perhaps. Whereas today, the way you're defining success is, in my words, the quality and the depth of the relationships you're able to cultivate with these clients. Tom Warner: Absolutely, and the impact we can make on their lives. Paul Salter: Help me reconcile then. So like deep rooted relationships are the goal, the standard in the office. How are you working to bring that same focus into your personal life with those you love and care about most? Tom Warner: having honest and more challenging conversations. I think I do that really well with clients. and having some of those honest and more, you know, where not to upset people, but to have some of the same conversations, you know, as as we say, it's if you really want to find out about someone, don't ask a closed-end question. so trying to, you know. having those same types of conversations with with my family and you know, with my kids and as they're maturing and, you know, potentially making life decisions and and so forth and trying to trying to do some more of that, and get deeper with in terms of the relationships with them. And I think it's it's definitely come on. I mean I've knock on wood, as I said, we've we've come a long way. I have a fabulous relationship with both my kids today. And you know, and and I and they do come to me with with different questions.

1:23:51 Paul Salter: It's interesting. What I heard you just say is I'm finding the courage to be more vulnerable. And I love that for you. And I think you embody it so well at your place of work. It's a two-way street. And that absolutely applies in your personal life. And I know you know this easier said than done, of course. So I commend you for that commitment. As you look ahead, what are you doing to make sure that success no longer costs you what matters most in your family, in your personal health? Tom Warner: you know, I think lots of things. I am you know, obviously physically and and you know, I'm taking better. I've you know, I haven't seen doctors in years. I'm getting to the doctors, finding out what I need to do to get in a better financial position. You know, I've hired a couple coaches to help me work through some, you know, some of the I call it the mind blocks. you know, Paul said I'm working with you and So we're gonna work through a bunch of this stuff and to try and allow me to be more present. you know, and it's it's and you know, allow me to potentially I'm gonna call it get some separation between the work mindset and a personal mindset. And that's that's way harder said than done.

1:25:15 Paul Salter: TITLE CARD: YOUR FAMILY NEEDS YOU – NOT MORE SUCCESS… Yeah. Yeah. So for somebody listening right now who really relates to your story, they have worked tirelessly to plan for tomorrow at the expense of their own well being and their family dynamic, their marriage, the relationship they have with their children. And they're in the midst of beginning to experience the cost, the regret, the impact of some of these trade offs. What words do you have for him? Tom Warner: y you've gotta take time and and almost I'm gonna call it pull back, if that makes sense. And figure out what's right for you and what's right for your goals and objectives both personally and professionally and maybe it's because it's easier to put the professional ones first you need to think about that. and it's okay to put yourself first and it's okay to you know And part of putting yourself first will put your family first and result of it also. and and that is that's okay and and it's probably more important than anything.

1:26:40 Paul Salter: Tom, thank you so much for your courage, your vulnerability, and your honesty today. Tom Warner: Absolutely. If we can help somebody do a little bit better than I did and still have the same success, hey, that's all we want. Paul Salter: Yeah. And we'll cut there. I'm just gonna snap so I remember when I hear it later. But dude, thank you so much. That was incredible. Tom Warner: Yeah. Yep. Tom Warner: Sure. Glad we can do it. Yeah. Paul Salter: Yeah, I mean I I know this will dramatically impact the lives of people listening, so thank you. Tom Warner: TITLE CARD: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOUR KIDS DISCOVER YOU’RE NOT SUPERMAN… well, I hope so. I'm I'm curious to see if I send it to my kids and and my wife to listen to… Paul Salter: Think you'll do that?

1:27:25 Tom Warner: I think I will. part of me is really scared to do that, honestly. Tom Warner: It's like letting the veil down behind the Wizard of Oz. Paul Salter: Yeah, what's that feel like? Tom Warner: Like about the superhero? Paul Salter: Yeah. What could potentially be on the other side of that newfound level of vulnerability?

1:28:12 Tom Warner: Perhaps have having a little bit better understanding of me. Tom Warner: Maybe perhaps having a more honest conversation with me. Paul Salter: took the words right out of my mouth, better understanding, more honesty, and that's a potent cocktail to deepen not only understanding, but connection, love in an indescribable way. Paul Salter: I imagine, yeah, think you said it more or less, like, you know, you said you pull down the veil, you're not seen as a superhero. Your kids, you know, were so excited when you walked through door this door. So there's this, you know, dad on a pedestal, if you will. This might, you know, even the playing field. And I'm using air quotes in a way that drastically strengthens and deepens your connection and understanding of one another.

1:29:12 Tom Warner: Nothing with that. Paul Salter: Nothing wrong with that. I appreciate you sharing that. Yeah, man. Really good work. I mean, I I loved, you know, getting to put your story together. Obviously, you know, we have got a little bit of a background together beforehand, but I got such a you know deeper, unique lens that, you know, what what brought you to here you are today. And like I feel like, I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but just as we went through that conversation. Tom Warner: Sure. Paul Salter: you are hitting some more clarity and dot connection as you reflected and brought things together. And I could just see some growth even in the last couple of months happening for you, which is an awesome trajectory. Tom Warner: Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah. Paul Salter: What I can do for you is when when we hang up here, I can send you just the raw audio right away. So if you want to listen back once more before you share it with your wife or kids, I can get get that to you, ASAP. otherwise, housekeeping-wise, I'm gonna go ahead and stop the recording. And the only reason being is it might take Tom Warner: Sure. Okay.

1:30:10 Tom Warner: Yeah.