The More I Won, the More Empty I Felt. | Jake Grosswiler

0:01 Paul Salter: Jake, as I prepared for today, one thing stood out to me that was just incredibly clear. Your story, it isn't about just building a business. It's really about you becoming multiple different versions of yourself with each new chapter of life. I mean, we think back, there's that young man chasing the race car dreams, the new father who has to start over after basically losing everything upon learning he's gonna be a father. There's multiple failed businesses, there's entries, there's exits, and now here today, there's this incredible leadership role that you're stepping into. My question really to begin our conversation is when you look back at all of these different versions of yourself, which one are you most grateful no longer exists?

0:56 Jake Grosswiler: Ooh. I'd definitely say like my race car younger era because I had to put on a persona of someone else in that phase of my life. Like I was I emulated Dale Earnhardt and the intimidator and like I put on that persona and that identity with everything that I had in me and it I didn't like who I was and so I won a lot and I was I found success as far as Well me most people would define that as. but I didn't looking back, I don't like who I was, how I treated people, some of the things that I felt like I needed to do. you know, if had I had an opportunity to take that back, that would probably be the phase that I would do differently again. So Paul Salter: Tell us more. That part of you, that version, that age of you, you just you didn't like him. What about maybe how he carried himself, how he built or neglected relationships did you most not like as you look back?

2:04 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I just I had put on a persona that like I was the best and I wore it and I wanted to intimidate people by it. Like I walked around like I was the best. I put people down, like I made them try and be scared of me or you know, and and just there's a lot of people in my life that were v my relationships were very transactional. I needed something and so how do I get that? from this person. How do I get what I need from that person? And then how do I get what I want at the end of the day? Whether that was results on the track or the girls that I was going after or the job that I wanted. Like it it leaked into everything and I I found my identity and my performance and my instead of like Christ, right? And like I'm I don't need to be anybody. I was created to be who I am and I lost that through that era of my life.

3:07 Paul Salter: Where do you learn that to put your identity and your performance, your results? Jake Grosswiler: Ooh, I don't know. I I honestly don't know where I learned that. I think the world, right? Like the w I feel like competition can generate that. Wasn't I didn't have anybody in my life saying like I wasn't anybody without the results. It was I guess I was raised the like if you're gonna do something, do your best at it was kind of the mentality and I felt like if I wasn't winning, I wasn't at my best 'cause I expected myself to win. And so and then in that world, like the racing world, like if you weren't first, you weren't anybody. Like nobody knew who second was. It didn't like no matter where I went, no matter what I did, like if I took second it wasn't good enough. It just ru it wasn't. so I think Paul Salter: Mm.

4:02 Jake Grosswiler: The sport that I was in didn't help that and then just the world, right, like telling me like if I'm gonna do this, I need to be this persona and be this person. Paul Salter: Yeah. So Ricky Bobby was right. If you ain't first, you're last. You're forgotten. Nobody knows who you are. And it's interesting too. Like I I appreciate the the courage to admit, like, you know, part of building myself up and acting like I was number one at all times was due to putting other people down. Was that younger version of you compensating for anything? A lack of confidence or something in that realm? Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean they again, like until I found my identity back in Christ, right, I think you are gonna be my opinion is you'll always be lacking something and trying to find that through other avenues or other things that fulfill that desire within you. And so yeah, if I got to you know put someone down and it made me feel better, or I could intimidate them or make them scared of me and then I could go produce a result because of that, then it gave me validation that I was doing the right thing and it was all false validations, but Paul Salter: So I know that was a short-lived career, if you will. You know, a few solid years of really thinking you were going to go professional and stock car racing. And inevitably, for lack of better description, it came to a screeching halt. I'm curious, though, as you reflect on some of those intangibles and characteristics you maybe weren't proud of as too far of a stretch, but looking back, you wish you had behaved or chosen differently. In that particular season of life, What was the moment that your behavior costed you from actually being able to have a substantial chance of going professional?

5:56 Jake Grosswiler: Actually don't know if my behavior I think Jake Grosswiler: It was one of those God things because talent wise I wasn't so the thing that ended up being the that stopped me from going professional racing was that, you know, you needed to I needed to bring a million dollar sponsorship. So I think maybe that that didn't that contributed to it too is 'cause I didn't have the confidence to find and I didn't have the relationship skills to develop a relationship where someone would sponsor me for a million dollars. And so p that might have attributed to it. at the time and actually now just thinking about it, like that didn't help anything. But where I was from, I was from Northwest Montana, like there wasn't million like maybe two companies in our entire ecosystem had the finances to spend a million dollars on advertising and it wasn't gonna be on a NASCAR. and so you know I think the area that I grew up in kind of put that but I think my relationships 'cause I traveled all over and I had opportunities had I been the right business person and had the right mentality to take advantage of that and I was talented enough I think to do it professionally but I didn't have the whole package as they would say. So Paul Salter: Yeah. So I I reflect as I'm listening to you, I reflect back on a period of my life where these are my words, not yours, where I thought I was hot shit and I was really just operating from a place of insecurity, thinking I was much better than I was, trying to compensate. If you had to use a couple adjectives or descriptors to describe that version of you, like I would say I was a punk, arrogant asshole. For me, not you. How would you describe that young version of you?

7:39 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, that that's very accurate. I mean I would almost use those exact words. I just was. I was selfish. I was an asshole. yeah, I just I was a jerk to a lot of people. I wasn't grateful. I feel like I was very expecting that like people would just give me what I wanted, right? So Definitely an asshole. I was definitely an asshole, for sure. Paul Salter: And it's so interesting, right? Like that though that cocktail of intangibles led to a lot of success, a lot of winning, both you know, on the track and off. Since that chapter of life, have you noticed that version of you try to make a reappearance at times?

8:28 Jake Grosswiler: No, I think I got really humbled through that experience and I'm very aware of it and so and I didn't like it. I think so it was actually kinda easy to weed that out of my out of my persona because I didn't really want to do that anyways. And I think hindsight twenty twenty is that I could have done all the things that I did and been nice while I was doing it. Because I was actually talented at it. I didn't need to be an i asshole. Like and I would help It was weird. I even in the time period, you know, there was some guys that I knew weren't competition and I was more than willing to try and help them get better. But it was the guys that were close to me that I would like shun and I would intimidate and like I would mess with them during practice and I would, you know, verbally abuse them off the track, like, I'm gonna kick your ass and I'm gonna do all these things. Like it was those guys that I was close in talent wise to that I would not but on the back end like my soul and my character was like I tried to help the guys that I knew what a competition. So even at the time I was trying to compensate it in ways so Paul Salter: Do feel threatened by those who you believed had similar skill sets or maybe were better?

9:45 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I I I wouldn't describe it as threatened, but bar probably. I mean you could easily describe it as that, right? Like it was just I didn't want to give the edge that I thought I had. It was more that. Like we were close. I knew we were close in talent. And so it was like, how could I get that edge? Paul Salter: That so you mentioned something earlier. I asked you, you know, where did you learn beginning to kind of tie your identity to performance results? And something I find fascinating about your story is you come from a family of entrepreneurs. I mean, your dad had his own business, mom played a large role in helping to maintain and scale that business. Both of your grandparents had their own businesses. So you're from this entrepreneurial family childhood. Like, tell us about that experience.

10:32 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, it's great. Right. Like it was y it's the typical entrepreneurial lifestyle. I feel like for the most part I was actually very protected from I knew there was a couple of points where we were going through some financial difficulties. but it wasn't heavily felt. You know what I mean? And my it my parents had the freedom to be able to spend a lot of time with us. We were at every baseball game, every basketball game, every football game, every race. you know, we got out of school in the summer and the first week was at the cabin and my mom would take us up there and we'd stay at the lake for a week straight. My dad would pop in, you know, for both the weekends of that week and so it was always a thing and I just you know, I saw the struggles, like I said, a little bit, but for the most part, like I saw the the freedom and I was always like my mom specifically just hammered it in me like You can do whatever you put your mind to. And like when I saw them doing that, it really Or at least what I thought was them doing what they wanted to do, right? Like that was what was being lived out and so I really believed that was true. And so, I think confidence is the main thing I took away from that was like you can go do it, like you don't need to go be in a corporate job or whatever.

12:00 Paul Salter: Glad you said that because I was curious, like, what do you think you really picked up knowingly or unknowingly from that experience that still serves you today? Confidence. I mean, obviously that's invaluable. I often describe confidence as like the most potent sought-after drug there is because when we're filled with confidence, we feel limitless, unstoppable. But let me flip it now. Looking back, what is one habit or belief, knowingly or unknowingly, that you think you picked up from one of your parents or grandparents? That actually hurt you along the way, held you back, perhaps. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. the belief lid. Like as much as I said like they also taught me how it was possible, they didn't I don't think they necessarily believed it and pursued it as far as they want. Like my feel like my my dad specifically was kinda disappointed with his results. Like he could have he always thought he could do more but and he tried like multiple businesses and he had employees and then He got stolen from and so he gave up like trying to scale again. Like it was kind of a one and done scenario. And I think so my and it was small town, like you don't leave, you just like make it work here. And so until later, like economics didn't work out and I had to move, I didn't realize like all the other opportunities that were out there. So and they all made it work, like I said, all of all of my grandparents grandma had her clothing store, my grandpa had his post plant, my dad had his sawmill supply business. And they were all local. Like they just made it work where we lived. So

13:43 Paul Salter: That's fascinating. But so where else did you notice? Like I love the the way you frame that, the belief lid. Like where else were you capping or limiting your potential, knowingly or not, as a result of seeing that as a young man? Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, just like all the possibilities, like having multiple houses and like that just wasn't a it wasn't a thing, right? Like it there was a few people in our town that that could do things, the doctors and the lawyers, right? Like those were the people that could do that. But the rest of us were all, you know, I grew up around loggers and farmers, you know, like humble, hard working guys that like they didn't have their dreams on having airplanes and Lamborghinis and like not that those things show success, but like there are very good people that have those things. And so to be able to correlate those two together definitely was not something that like what I was raised in. So Paul Salter: Those first call it seventeen years of life, who were you closest with, mom or dad?

14:57 Jake Grosswiler: for sure my dad. Yeah, my mom's like very conservative Christian, very kind of strict around that, and I was very rebellious, especially especially at that age, right? Like rules were made to be broken and my dad is very similar. my dad was kind of a helion when he was younger and like we were just very r relatable. My dad coached every sport that I played. Paul Salter: Tell me more. Paul Salter: Hang. Jake Grosswiler: he helped me work on my race car, like he was always helping me work on stuff and and so we spent a ton of time together and we were very similar. Like even now, like I'll yell at one of my kids for something and I'll hear it in my voice that like that was my dad. Like that was it's really weird, right? Like you just get catch those nuances from from that time that like I'm still very similar to my dad.

15:56 Paul Salter: So you mentioned like it seems at least for a chapter of childhood, mom and dad demonstrated a lot of flexibility, freedom. They're both working, but they're prioritizing you, they're at events, they're spending a lot of time with you. There's the cabin after school ends. Did that level of freedom and flexibility remain a staple throughout your childhood? Yeah. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They did pretty good of I can think of like like I said, one year, maybe two years where I could tell something was a little off 'cause like we didn't do as much as normal. but for the most part, or like, you know, I couldn't buy a new baseball glove that year. You know, there's like those little things that like that's weird. I usually get a new I whatever. new life jacket for the lake, like and there's a couple years where it was like, No, you can use last year's So it was like the little things, but for the most part they did a really good job of sheltering me from all of that. So Paul Salter: That's phenomenal. I mean, I look back at, you know, my dad is a tremendous work ethic. And he was at not a hundred percent of my sporting events. I probably chocolate up to 80%. So maybe similar enough to yours, but like that man was up at four, home at six, seven, or eight. And something like you know, you mentioned already two specific quotes or sayings that you remember from your parents. And it's funny how they stick. Like something my dad used to always say is, I'll sleep when I'm dead. And I carried that for a while and fortunately realized that is not the way I want to live my life because I was utterly exhausted for a couple of years. If you think about maybe one of the other sayings, euphemisms, or ways of life one or both of your parents lived by that maybe you don't agree with or hasn't served you, does anything come to mind?

17:47 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I think that competitive thing of like if you're not gonna be the best then there's not really a point in doing it. It was almost a perfectionism saying. Like why do it if you're not gonna and I think what the heart of it was was like just give it a hundred percent, but that's not how it was stated. And so like there's been times in my life where I'm like, yeah, it sounds fun, but like I'm not gonna give a hundred percent, so I'm not gonna do it. And I feel like I missed out on some experiences and some stuff like I just got into golf. Like that's how we ran into each other, right? And so I did not like golf when I was younger. My dad was a avid golfer. But I knew I couldn't give it a hundred percent and so and I didn't want to. Like he would try and give me lessons and I'm like, No, I don't I don't care. I'm just out here to spend time with you. Like I don't wanna be good at this. It's the one thing like I don't really care about. And so I didn't play for a long time and I kinda like actually like It was repulsing. Like I didn't want a anything to do with it. And then, you know, you get a little older and slow down and all the other competition stops and now I love it again, right? But I also I don't have to be the best. I can just go have fun with my friends and all of that. Like I still wanna work on it and I I wanna get better, but it's not something you know, work was always if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it the best or I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna learn how to do this about I'm gonna be the best framer, I'm gonna be the best finish carpenter, I'm gonna be the best superintendent, I'm gonna be the best project manager. Like how do I I was always how do I be the best? How do I do the next guy's job? And how do I do it better? And so yeah, that's a phrase that has had good consequences and bad consequences.

19:36 Paul Salter: Yeah, so you brought up a point for me, like something I I find myself conversing quite often internally with myself as well as with a lot of my clients is this theme or concept of like contentment or maybe better said like enoughness and like hearing that there was strong perfectionistic influence in some of the things your dad said and role modeled and how it it served you in some areas. Like I'd love to hear what is your relationship with being content or settling for enough? Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, it's not great. It's really not. Like I I even in the our like prep for this, right? Like I when you ask what is success to me, it's like I still feel like that's always in a a an evolving target, right? Like I don't feel there's a fixed point and that's in much area of my life, which again I feel like is a blessing and a curse. You know, like I feel like I c I can always be a better dad, I can always be a better husband, I can always have a better experience, I can but then there's also times where it's like, This should be good enough. Why am I why is this just not good enough? Right? Like, you know, go on a vacation and like there's one thing wrong and that you're focused on that instead of all the other things that went right and where you're at and the experiences you're having. And so, yeah, it can be a blessing and a curse.

21:03 Paul Salter: For you when you're wrestling with that, I'm gonna th share a couple of things. I'm curious if any resonate. Does that produce feelings of anxiety, frustration, anger, stress when you're trying to like actually enjoy like this is enough, this is great, let me be present, but it is that internal friction? Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, it's definitely like frustration. I feel like I get f frustrated with myself, right? Like I'm like you just gotta get in the moment, like lock in, be grateful and I've learned that recently, like I'm getting way better at gratitude exercises, which helps in those situations. I think that's something that I've found. But yeah, there's frustration or anger, right? Like I get short with people, like specifically my wife. Like in those situations where I'm tense or I feel un easy and I'm and I'm internally battling something and then she's like, What's wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong? Then I get short with her and so yeah, it it's not good and I still have work to do on that.

22:06 Paul Salter: Think we all do. And I think really just being aware of what that experience is like for you can hopefully give you the clarity on what tools you need to begin improving, which it seems like you're headed down that path, which is incredible. So again, kinda I this it still fascinates me. Like you're just you were born into entrepreneurship, so it seems. In your words, you said entrepreneurship, it's in my DNA. So to me, that says entrepreneurship was inherited. But your identity wasn't necessarily. So was there ever a moment that you feel you had to take this entrepreneurial journey just to prove to your mom, your dad, that family legacy that you could do it?

22:49 Jake Grosswiler: No. No, I'm I never felt that pressure. It was more the opposite. Like I'd just be working for people and be like, I know I can do this better. Right? Like it was that more of that like or not even better, but like I know I could do this on my own. And I know like well, that's a whole nother story, but like, you know, you feel like you can do it better or that it's easier or you can make more money by doing it and you don't have the full picture and so you just step into it, right? And and so I at no point did I feel any pressure from anybody to be an entrepreneur though. It's just it I really feel like it's natural for me.

23:32 Paul Salter: Do you think your path was easier when you made that transition, especially like in the construction realm, to finally walk away from having a boss and step out on your own because of the runway your parents had laid for you? Jake Grosswiler: Possibly? Jake Grosswiler: I mean, I don't feel like I've failed three times, so the runway is like not I don't feel like you know, it's not easy on anybody, right? And so I knew more going into it. I knew the more responsibilities, I knew the financial stuff, right? Like I saw my dad work all day and my mom do the bookkeeping, and my dad would get home and write sales orders at the end, you know, f at night. And so like I knew the long hours, like I knew the dedication that it took, so that side of it probably prepared me a little bit more for entrepreneurship. but they're also in different industries and so there was a lot of learning that I had to do that was specific to what I'm doing now. So Paul Salter: So let's time travel again. It's 2008, 2009. We'll kind of lump them together for the sake of simplicity. You've been professionally racing cars across the country and you're finally beginning to acknowledge and admit that the end is very near. You're also heavily involved in an industry that is on the verge of a major national collapse. And as a young man, by the way, you're expecting a child with a woman you don't have, in your words, a healthy relationship with. If I were to meet that young man, what would he have been most afraid of in his life at that time?

25:16 Jake Grosswiler: Himself. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. I was I didn't like who I was. So I think I knew I was my biggest threat. Like I didn't like who I was, I didn't like the decisions I was making. I didn't feel like I was necessarily ready to be a dad. I was really disappointed with, you know, the racing aspect of it. the economy was coming down, like there was just I think but myself honestly, like I just really didn't like myself and I was definitely my biggest the biggest threat to myself. So Paul Salter: In that moment, were you aware of the dislike and incongruency that was present?

26:09 Jake Grosswiler: feel like in my core I was, right? Because I was just ultimately unhappy. There was nothing that made me happy, right? Like I was dabbling in drugs and alcohol and girls and like nothing winning race car races. You know what I mean? Like all of this stuff that I was still doing and I was successful at work too. Like I worked for a great general contractor and he let me kind of run a framing division for him and you know we were Paul Salter: Yeah. Paul Salter: Mm. Jake Grosswiler: building multi million dollar houses on ski resorts and like we're outside looking in like I was living the dream and but I was not happy. Like I just was there was no joy in my life.

26:53 Paul Salter: What were you chasing? Jake Grosswiler: To feel whole, I think. Right? Like that identity. I w my identity was tied to those things. And so when one of them was going wrong, then and I always had one of them going wrong. Like I either didn't win the race or I was breaking up with a girl or a project was going sideways. You know what I mean? Like there's never something was always up. And so when when that happened then I was a failure. Right, like my identity and how I felt about me was tied to performance. Paul Salter: If you weren't able to use drugs or alcohol at the time to kind of numb, cope, or avoid some of those feelings or emotions? And let's say hypothetically, those feelings have voices or stories in your head, and suddenly you can't numb and quiet them. Like, what would your internal dialogue rooted in insecurity sounded like during Jake Grosswiler: I mean, there's lots of stuff, right? Like I don't belong, I'm not good enough, like Jake Grosswiler: How do I fix this? Like you know, they're you're having all those internal dialogue conversations of If I could do this, maybe that'd be I could make it better or I'd feel like this. You know, I mean I think that's what leads to doing the drugs and alcohol and y all of that, right? Is the you're in search of something that's gonna make you feel better. So it was a bunch of it was no, it was just a bunch of like I didn't like myself, right? Like I I

28:37 Paul Salter: Fast forward today. Go ahead. Jake Grosswiler: struggled with depression and you know, all of that a lot. Like I there was definitely moments where I was wanting to take my life and very close to it and I struggled with all of that. So Paul Salter: Tell us about that period. What was so consuming to the point you were questioning whether or not you wanted to live another day? Jake Grosswiler: think it was what how do I find joy? Because like I said, outside looking in I was like all my friends were jealous. I mean maybe not jealous, but like I definitely like was looked up to or envied by specifically the guys I raced with and stuff like that, right? And so But it wasn't good enough for me. And I didn't know how to make it good. I had tons of friends, I was partying, like I was the life of the party for the most part. I was an asshole, but like, you know, but I got the girl. And so it was like all of these things outside looking in, like I should be happy and I just wasn't. I just felt empty. Yeah.

29:52 Paul Salter: What did that young man need to hear or need to know? Like if you could go back and just share a simple message with him, what did he really need at that time of his life? Jake Grosswiler: Just to know that like I don't need to be anything. Like I was created, right? Like I think that was the biggest thing and it that probably happened in the last couple of years that I have really learned that and actually accepted it that like God created me in his image. I wasn't just born. Like he created me in his image to do something. And so if that calling is on my heart, whether I believe it or trust it or not, then I have fa a faith issue. And so if I truly believe that I'm created, then I also truly need to believe that the callings of my heart are for a purpose, whether they lead to the exact result that I want or not, like it it's all for a purpose. And so that took that takes so much weight off me personally. And I think had I learned that earlier and found my identity in that instead of the things that I was in my performance. Like I would have been a lot further along earlier. I would've had way better relationships for sure.

31:11 Paul Salter: Tracks. So again, like just distilling that period of time. The race car is gone, the house is gone, your truck is gone, a little baby girl's on the way. Basically, everything disappeared, except the arrival of a beautiful young girl. From looking at Jake, though, everything has disappeared. Like, who was left after all of that was stripped away from you? Jake Grosswiler: Mm-hmm. Jake Grosswiler: I don't know. Like I think my daughter saved my life. Like I I think that's the reality through that period is like I learned what true love is, acceptance. Like whether I did that for myself or not, I knew that like she needed me to be more. she needed a dad around. Like I've seen what suicide has done to people and their children and so I knew that no matter how I felt that she needed I but needed to be her dad and I needed to do that. And so it that gave me another purpose, but I don't think I found myself again until probably a few years ago. Like I and I think that was a long process. I was very I found a new purpose to live, which was her and to provide for her, protect her and give her a a good living. And then you know, a couple years later then I met my wife and like then I had Paul Salter: Mm-hmm.

32:45 Jake Grosswiler: But I it was always then it was for someone else. But it's been within the last couple of years that I really found like my identity in Christ and like that's I just need to do what he's calling me to do because it's gonna benefit and put me on mission for him. Paul Salter: So it's interesting, and I hope I get my word choice right here, because it's coming from a good place. Is it almost like almost what I'm hearing is that becoming a father became a productive enough distraction to keep you moving forward. The distraction meaning you still weren't quite working on yourself yet to the degree you are now. And that and that having a daughter allowed you to move forward and pour yourself into something, but still not pour yourself into yourself yet.

33:32 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I think that's very fair and very accurate way of looking at it. I mean it was I did I I knew I needed to be different, right? So like right after she was born I went to a religious boot camp and like kinda like got myself cleaned up per se and like matured I matured on that trip a lot. I was gone for four months, like we did no drugs, no alcohol. It was basically a military style boot camp that we did military trainings in the mornings and the evenings and then we did biblical college throughout the day and so like and that was I think she was four months old when I left to go do that. 'cause I was still drinking and using drugs at that time. So I wanted I knew I needed to get at least get that part of my life squared away. and so I went and did that. But I I think it's very fair to say that I was I still hadn't really started working on myself, like I said, until a few years ago.

34:37 Paul Salter: So it's I I I love like I pick up on this theme so clearly, and you're obviously aware, like some of these major turning points, and especially this time period 0809 and the arrival of your daughter, like the theme is it keeps coming back to your faith, not as an explanation, but as like a foundation of how you started to build the man you are today. It's almost like it gave you the compass, it pointed it in the right direction, and it took some years still, trial and error, to take the steps in that direction. But something you've said even deeper amongst your faith is like you made this commitment, I think you used the word acceptance to surrender, to let go, to trust. And like I hear that coming from a place of deep trust. So I'm curious, was there ever a specific moment when you stopped trying to control every outcome and just genuinely began to trust your faith, your belief, your religion as you moved forward?

35:38 Jake Grosswiler: I can't say a specific moment. But it like I said, I feel like it was It's been two years now that like I've really been on my faith journey. Like I've my gratitude stuff, like my daily scripture readings. we've been going to church very consistently. Like I think business specifically this business. Jake Grosswiler: Continually God has shown up in ways that like, you know, we'll get a job out of nowhere when we right when we need one. Like there's just been too many things that are not coincidences. you can call luck, you can call whatever you want, but like it's happened way too consistently. And that's what I said. Like, I think that really has built the faith and the the willingness to let go is because like Paul Salter: Okay.

36:44 Jake Grosswiler: I know that I'm supposed to work hard and I'm supposed to try and I'm supposed to do what I think is right. But at the end of the day, like his will is gonna be done. And so when something doesn't work out, it probably ended up better. Right? Like there's been a couple of situations where we didn't get jobs and they ended up being disasters or the customer didn't pay or whatever. And then right, and you hear about that from the guy that did it or you know, you hear about it, whatever. And so, but then like I said, there's been situations where like I get stressed and we're Paul Salter: Yeah. Jake Grosswiler: And then all of a sudden I'll get a call from somebody I knew five years ago and we'll get a job. So I think that continual proof that it's not luck, it's too consistent, has built my relationship and my willingness to let go and just trust that like he actually does I am doing this for his purpose and I am doing the right thing and he is blessing me for that.

37:43 Paul Salter: What actually changed inside of you when your faith became real? Not just something you believed, but like something you began to live out every day. Jake Grosswiler: I think I became softer, I guess you could say. Like I'm not as competitive. Like I want people I became I I want more people to win. I want to help people find success. Like I'm not as threatened. I'm still competitive, but I'm not as threatened, right? Like I I want to help other people. Like that's why I want to come do things like this. Like if I can help if I can be relatable and just like know that like you can change and trust and Jake Grosswiler: All of that, right? Like I'd say that's the biggest transformation. I just feel like I'm not soft, but I've been I'm more I am softer.

38:45 Paul Salter: Yeah. Was Well, it's so it's so interesting you say that because one of my questions that came up as I was listening, I was like, okay, I'm like, I'm so curious. This faith has become an overwhelmingly, you know, important part of your life, especially the last couple of years. And like you're talking about being this arrogant asshole, so competitive, win at all costs. And like my my mind was going to the direction of like, did your faith make you any less ambitious or maybe differently ambitious? I think you answered it, but I want to hear you a address it head on again. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I would say so. Like I'm still I still wanna be the best at what I'm doing, right? 'Cause I think that that's how you're supposed to use your gifts. but I think part of me being the best is helping other people achieve their goals and dreams. And so I wanna be the best at that too. Like and all the lessons that I learned, like I don't wanna harbor those is like intellectual property. Like I wanna be able to like Put that those lessons in so somebody else doesn't have to wait as long or learn the way that I learned them. 'Cause I feel like I'm a pretty seasoned pro at learning from the school of hard knocks 'cause I'm pretty stubborn and I've chose to travel that road. And like there's people that can benefit from hearing stories from guys like me that don't need to travel that road. And so like that's what I that's what I wanna do. But I Yeah, I I just want to help people.

40:24 Paul Salter: What I've heard is the earlier, younger version of you, the way you measured success, cars, trucks, girls, money, experiences, how did faith fundamentally change your relationship with its success? Jake Grosswiler: I think fundamentally it changes like to me the more people that I can lead to have a relationship with God like I have is where I find success now. If I can if I can help get you closer to that and the weight and the the weight that's been lifted off of my shoulders, if I can help people experience that and develop that then that's success to me. 'Cause really what it leads to is joy. I don't think you can actually experience joy like I was searching for with all the other crap until you're you don't wear the weight. Like if you're trying to if you're trying to live an identity that's rooted in things you can't control, how do you ever experience joy? That's kind of Paul Salter: Heavy, but light.

41:39 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Paul Salter: I love how you frame that. And it's interesting, a lot of research will suggest that the happiest, most successful people, they do believe in a higher power. And whether it be faith, religion, universe, spirit is not the point of this conversation. The reason I bring that up is like help me fill in the gaps of your journey in faith because you you mentioned mom is a very conservative, strict Christian. Jake Grosswiler: Okay. Paul Salter: You're a rebellious teenager. You have a chapter of race car driver, arrogant asshole. And you know, that that's a couple decades ago. And you're just saying you really strengthened your relationship with faith the past couple of years. You went to that boot camp when your daughter was born. She's 17 now. Was there a part of you like actually let me start here? Did you have a religious undertone to your upbringing? Okay.

42:34 Jake Grosswiler: yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, I was born in the church. You know, my mom made me go to church. I think that probably part of what made me rebel is like as soon as I got to make a choice that I didn't have to go anymore. I just didn't 'cause I didn't have to. but yeah, I mean and I also I like always had I was around it and I was aware of it. And I think probably that's why I felt as much guilt and as much weight as I did is because I knew Paul Salter: Okay. Jake Grosswiler: I knew where my identity should be and I wasn't doing that. I was trying to like no, I'm gonna rebel against that and so I think that's the struggles that I lived through.

43:18 Paul Salter: Yeah. So how I mean it's interesting, you alluded to it, and we're gonna shift our conversation here shortly in greater detail, but like you failed three times. I mean, when I hear you say that those are three like surface level everybody can see kind of fails. You and I both know there's plenty of micro mistakes, hard lessons learned every single day as an entrepreneur. I mean, you've forcefully and unforcefully or knowingly and non-wanting to exit businesses that you'd entered into. How has faith changed your relationship with failure? twenty years. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I I again I think it's the weight. Like yeah, I just don't I don't necessarily like it and it's still tough when I feel like I do fail or I haven't won because I like winning and I expect myself to do really good. And so when I don't, it's still tough. Like I I grieve my losses. Like when my when we exited those companies I didn't and I I felt like it was a forced exit instead of a planned exit. I grieve that. But I didn't wear it as it was a me. I didn't I didn't I don't wear the weight of that going like it's all my fault. I d I'm definitely gonna learn lessons from it and takeaways and I would never do the things that I did the same way again. but I trust that that's God had a plan in that. I learned a lot from it. It could have been much worse. Right, like I could have those companies could have went bankrupt and I could have went bankrupt and lost everything again and gone through all of that, right? And so I feel very blessed even though it wasn't how I wanted it. Like I said, I think that's where my faith comes in. I trust that God's plan is being lived out. So I don't have to question whether that was good or bad. I just have to trust that there's a different plan. And I think like I said, the actions As hard as it was to go through that, it could have been worse. And so I'm I feel grateful and blessed that I it wasn't worse. My kids don't have to live through a bankruptcy. Like there's all kinds of things that like could have went worse. And so I just I think that has changed a lot too, is I'm I'm way quicker to find the thing to be grateful for and the good in the tough situations than I was prior. Like when I lost to race it was I was pissed until the next race. You know what I mean? Like the whole week was bad until I got to race again. So

45:57 Paul Salter: Yeah. That's how I used to feel when my football team lost, so I do get it. Kidding aside, I I I I know what you mean. Obviously, yours is much more important scale of significance, but that's I just brought that up for me. I was like, man, when the Redskins used to lose as a teenager, it would ruin my week. I can't imagine what it felt like to get second in a professional car race car race. So you said one single word that piqued my interest. Most people didn't even hear it, I imagine, but you said when you had the unplanned exit, like Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, yeah. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Paul Salter: As you've begun to lean more on your faith, you grieved that exit. And I I say this from the point of view of, you know, generalizing most men are emotionally constipated. They don't let themselves feel emotion. How did you grieve that?

46:45 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I think I just I f I it was hard, right? And so I n and I I accepted it as a loss. And I looked at it as a loss. I was los like we went from fifty four employees to ten overnight. They were now working for someone else. And it wasn't because it was this great thing that we got to exit and pay all. They all got bonuses and we rode off in the sunset. It was this is your two choices. You either have a job tomorrow and work for them or you don't. Paul Salter: Yeah. Jake Grosswiler: And you don't work for any of us, right? And so I knew going into that that that was gonna be difficult. And so I I said my goodbyes like they were goodbyes. And I took the time to feel that and I still feel it. Like it's still sad to me that I lost those people. I still have relationships with them, right? But like I'm not their leader. And I a good mentor of mine, Jake, you know, said that he when I was telling him how I was feeling, he's like I hear a lot of eyes in that and you're forgetting him. And so it brought it back to me that, you know, there was a plan and it could be worse. You know I mean, but I I still do I feel like they worked for me because I had a vision. This is again all the eyes, right? Like I felt like I had this vision and the reality is is like it didn't work out. And it it It is how it's supposed to be and they're okay. but my relationships are different with them now, right? And so it's okay for me to to feel that, that that grief of I'm not their leader anymore, and I didn't accomplish the goals that we set out to accomplish together. Like it just didn't happen and I'm sad about that.

48:40 Paul Salter: I love to and and maybe you know this, but I wanna highlight it in case you haven't quite put it together. Like you told me, I don't know, thirty minutes ago that you used to be someone who only built transactional relationships and here you are years later, still kind of grieving the shift in a relationship because you feel you you let these people down, didn't lead them effectively. You have so much care for them as humans. Like That's quite a change in how you approach relationships today. I hope just you see and hear that in yourself, how much you've grown in that. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's yeah, part of the faith thing, right? Too. You're allowed to care about people more when you're not just looking out for yourself.

49:27 Paul Salter: So let's fast forward to today. We've talked all over the timeline of your past and to you know, the last, let's call it twelve, fifteen years, there's been a handful of, you know, significant failures. There have been planned exits, unplanned exits, but today you're the CEO and co-founder of GC Legacy Construction. Jake Grosswiler: Okay. Paul Salter: You lead a sizable team, you've crossed the eight figure mark over the years, you've got four healthy kids in your way in your words, a happy, thriving marriage of fourteen going on fifteen years. Jake Grosswiler: Mm. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's life's good right now. I mean it's still business is still rebounding. we're still kinda getting our our feet wrapped around other feet under us again, but you know, family life, you know, four healthy kids that are fun and athletic and have personalities and all age rages and so we're doing all the things right now and yeah, our marriage is thriving. We're actually I'm actually in Cancun right now. My birthday's this week. So you know, blessed blessed to be able to get some little bit of time away and and celebrate ourselves and all of that. So yeah. What life's good, marriage is good, kids are good.

50:47 Paul Salter: Happy early birthday. That's incredible. So looking back across your journey though, and I hope you like just listening to me share kind of a very high-level overview of where you are today, you can feel some gratitude, take some pause to experience that pride, look at all that you have built. You've been through and to hell and back, maybe a couple of times. Yet here you are today. As you reflect on all we've discussed so far, and even the parts of your journey we haven't discussed. Jake Grosswiler: Thank you. Yeah. Paul Salter: What belief about yourself has had to change the most to make what you have today possible?

51:28 Jake Grosswiler: I think I don't have to be perfect. Like I'm allowed to make mistakes. And although I'm gonna continue to strive to be the best, it's okay to have other people that are better than me around me and like let them take roles off my plate and be the best at what they're good at and like work as a team together. And I think being not transactional, right? to have transformational relationships instead of transactional relationships has allowed me to find the success that we're having, right? Like to have leadership teams around me that we can have confrontational conversations with like when we don't agree on something, we just like, hey, we're gonna hammer it out. Like whether we get a little bit loud or what, like we just we work through things because we care about each other. They tr we trust each other to be vulnerable and like have raw conversations about how we really feel. We don't have to walk on eggshells. And I think five years ago when I was having transactional relationships, like you can't have leadership around good leadership around you when you're not when you don't when they don't know you actually care about Right? Like you can tell you care about but until they re you really feel that around somebody, you're not gonna get the results that I've been fortunate enough to have. It's affected my marriage significantly too. Like, you know, I was very surface level with conversations with her for you know first five years of our relationship before I really would get vulnerable and all of that. And so I think that part of maturing my faith, all of that has changed my relationships which has changed my life in every area.

53:32 Paul Salter: Yeah. Well, so it's interesting. Is it fair for me to say for that period of time you were emotionally constipated? Yeah. And and I and I say that because I was for 30 years. most men are, and I'd say that's because I've worked with thousands of people, but I'm curious then. Like I love that you brought it up your marriage there, because that's that's where most of that emotional constipation takes place. In the workplace, and this is all pure observation, my experience. Jake Grosswiler: Yes. Yeah, I think that's very Paul Salter: That emotional constipation shows up as anger, inability to effectively lead, communicate, and delegate. In home life and in the marriage, and even with kids, it shows up of an as an inability to be present. You're disconnected, you're distant. You use work to numb, to cope, and avoid. When you look back at that version of you who was emotionally constipated, still very transactional, even kind of surface level with your wife. What emotions were you carrying that? you didn't even or that you didn't feel safe or like you had permission to express at that time.

54:36 Jake Grosswiler: I think the insecurity. I think that's the biggest one, right? Like if when you're when I'm constantly wanting to be the best and I don't feel like I'm the best yet, then I question if I'm good enough for her or good enough for the employees that are working for me. You know what I mean? Like i i it bleeds into it bled into everything and then so I'm just I'm just wearing it all. There's no one I feel confident enough to talk to about her that I trust enough because most of my relationships are transactional. And so how do you trust that information? Cause you just feel like it's because you use that when someone if someone gives you that information, you use it against them somehow, being transactional. And so you can't give anybody that information because you think it's going to get used against you. And so it's just a vicious cycle that that I was in that bled, but I think it all stemmed from insecurity.

55:36 Paul Salter: And isn't that fascinating? Again, you probably noticed, but I think it's worth highlighting. Like you just described the night 17, 18, 19, 20-year-old, you insecure trying to put other people down to mask the insecurity. But you can't put your wife down and expect to be in a marriage any longer. So you don't have that tool up your tool belt anymore. And you have to finally be vulnerable. But in a moment, I'm gonna ask you what shifted, what helped you begin walking a different path. But I'm curious. You spent you said you spent a lot of time with your dad growing up. So the quality time was there, but was he emotionally constipated as well? Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. Definitely. I mean my dad was a typical baby boomer dad, like just freaking hard work, hard as nails, never had an issue, couldn't shed a tear, like you know I mean, like just there was no emotion. There was hard work and winning and if we weren't we were trying to win. Like that was the whole that was life. Like it just anger, there was definitely anger on occasion, right?

56:43 Paul Salter: Yeah. And it go ahead, please. Jake Grosswiler: But No, I just yeah, I I would say he was very emotionally constipated. But also. Paul Salter: And there there's this line I love out of the founders podcast. The the host is David Senra, who basically did he reads a biography or an autobiography a l a week. And I'm gonna butcher the line, but it's relevant because he basically says, like, you see the whole origin story of all these successful fathers based on their relationship with their father or founders based on the relationship with their fathers. And like your description of your father, I mean, you just described my father, my upbringing. I've seen my dad. Cry once in his entire life, and that was at a funeral for one of his best friends, where it was expected. And it might have been like a micro tier, if that. Where I love that you shared that and were so vulnerable is like your dad, especially, he instilled a potent freaking cocktail of successful intangibles in you. Yet at some point, some of those intangibles they cross a threshold and they start to be destructive and counterproductive. And that's when you feel the pain. You've described the pain. And it's up to you and nobody else to decide if you want to do different. So we come back to, I love how you said this, moving from transactional to transformational relationships, being more vulnerable and emotionally open with your wife. What was the catalyst?

58:10 Jake Grosswiler: s self development. So I I actually started going to card on ventures events. so they're like a business workshop stuff and I heard Brandon Dawson speak and they were talking about you know, self development. You gotta work on yourself. If you wanna be a better leader you gotta des you gotta be give yourself the tools to be a better leader. And it's the same as learning any other trade or any of that, right? And so I that resonated with me. And so then I one of his mentors was John Maxwell. So then I went started reading Maxwell stuff. And then I started, you know, going to all these listening to all the podcasts. I listen to Tommy Mello podcasts. Like all these different business or Andy Frasilla's been a big mentor of mine for a long time. V a virtual mentor. Same with Ed Milette. I listen to a lot of Ed Milette stuff. And so when I started like and actually my buddy was telling me like I needed to be more involved with my kids' lives. It's basically what's what real actually started it. So he got me listening to Paul Salter: Well, so Paul's right there. How did it feel to hear that?

59:26 Jake Grosswiler: I didn't agree in the moment, right? Like 'cause I was still in the I was still no, I gotta work. I gotta provide and protect my kids. Like I don't necessarily have to be at everything. I gotta provide, like and so I didn't I didn't take it that well right away, but I knew in my deep down that he was right. And so but he told me he listened to Andy Frasilla and Ed Milette. And so he got me onto them, and that's really actually what ended up leading me into the Cardinal Adventure stuff later. It was years later, like three years later. but I think that was a first little dose of like self development, self help stuff that I started doing. and that really started like opening my eyes to because I was I'm slightly dyslexic. And so reading always was really hard for me. But then I started all the you know, these guys are always talking about CEOs read like on average of I don't know, thirty six books a year or something crazy, fifty books a year or something. And I was like, Man, I need to read more and so I started listening to audiobooks. And once I started doing that, then it was like I get little pieces, like you know, one or two sentences out of a book that like really changed my life. You know what I mean? Like the the finding my identity in Christ and believing that I was made actually came from a book that my sister gave me. You know, like those little tidbits of like that just really resonate with me because it's like, yeah, like if I if I don't trust God that He created me, if I just think I'm born, then I'm calling him a liar. And like the way that that said that, I was like, man, that was profound. Like that put it in a different light to me. And so I think that's where my self development journey really started and I started hearing things like transformational to transactional and like all of these phrases and terms came from different books and you know, it takes effort to learn these things. It's not natural. So but that's where that started.

1:01:40 Paul Salter: I hear, and you fill in the gaps, or correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like that friend of yours mentioning, like, hey, you need to spend more time with your kids, like was a major test. You could have reacted, and maybe that old version of you, the arrogant, selfish asshole, would have reappeared had you not already done some work. Yet you decided to really, it seems to me, and listening to you, there was at least a moment of pause to consider what he was saying. And in that moment you went from reaction to response and you chose to respond by taking action. And I cause I listen to that, like to me, I I just want to reflect back to you. That seems like a major growth moment for you.

1:02:21 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I like now that I'm on the train, I think it actually goes back to that program that I was in because it during that program I realized like I'm not perfect and I need to take feedback into my life and I need to I don't always have to accept it. But when someone speaks something into my life, like I at least need to acknowledge it, run it through a filter and decide if I believe that or not. And if I do believe it then I need to take action to improve it. And I so I think that program was a huge catalyst to being able to self reflect the way that I do now and take input from outside people. And then yeah, having people in my life that are willing to speak those things into me is important too.

1:03:10 Paul Salter: Yeah. Yeah. Really well said there. So I'm going to shift to what eventually is going to become a staple to this show. I'm going to probably change the name five times, but I'm going to call it the cost of success seven. We're going to have seven questions here, just really digging into success now. And where I want to go, because we did a lot of prep work around just the word success. And I don't even think you're still sure what direction you want to go with it, which is fascinating to me. We haven't spent much time talking about. Jake Grosswiler: Mm. Paul Salter: all that success has given and afforded you. And that's not the purpose of the show, but I am curious, what did success give you that you expected?

1:03:51 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I think money somewhat. I mean it comes and goes, right? But you know, the I can afford nicer cars, nicer experiences, you know, modest houses, like all of all of the things that you think are gonna come with success are pretty accurate, I would say. You know, I can I got sky miles and can jump on a plane when I need to. Like there's just you're afforded those things that you think of when you think of success. Paul Salter: Do you believe you learn to fully enjoy the success that you've achieved?

1:04:36 Jake Grosswiler: No. No, because I like I said, I I still honestly feel like success is a moving target. I will say that I do have way more joy in my life now than I did like five years ago. So Paul Salter: What didn't success give you that you thought it would? Jake Grosswiler: Like less work, more time, less stress, like Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. Like just struggles. Like it definitely didn't take away struggles and hard decisions and relationship issues. Like I mean, it doesn't it does not solve everything. Life still happens, you know. I mean, I still got you know, unfortunately got family members that get cancer and like you know, like there's just life still happens and like you have more relationships and more resources, but It doesn't fix everything and it doesn't make it all to stop.

1:05:53 Paul Salter: I love that answer. So I'm curious, like just this kind of a question within that response. What do you wish the young entrepreneur was taught about success that you've had to learn the hard way? Jake Grosswiler: Success isn't a thing. Success is actually, I think, you know, if I had if you put a gun to my head and said I had to come up with a definition of it today, success is helping as many people achieve what they find as success. If you can do that, then you're successful. Because in doing that is really where you find joy. And if you can help like all your employees and all your family find what f help them not even find it, but if you can help them achieve a level of success of a level of what they find a success, then you're gonna have success. 'Cause if just doing good and helping people win, you're gonna innately win. Which is fun and it's not the way that you think of it when you start. Like as a start as an entrepreneur, like I gotta take care of my family and I can put gotta provide for this. Or even before that, I want a jet and I want a hot wife and you know like all the things, right? And it's you. You wanna do it for you. and what you want. And the reality is that's not what success is 'cause you find those things and you're still not happy and it's not it is it's it's not what you think it's gonna be. So it's way more fun to help other people win.

1:07:27 Paul Salter: What does success cost you? Jake Grosswiler: Time. I think time's a the one thing you can't get it get back, right? And so it does take a significant investment of time. you do have to work longer and deal with you're the you're the last line of defense, right? So you're the one that has to figure out the problems that everybody you pay to figure out problems couldn't figure out. Elon Musk said it the best. Like you're you have to figure out the problems that no one else has answers to. And so that takes time. It take and stress. I mean and all of that at the end of the day, time's the one thing you can't buy. And so, and stress takes time off your life. And so whether it costs you in the moment, you know, working twenty four hours a day for a week straight or whatever that costs you in that moment actually is gonna take time off the end of the the backside too. Right? And so you're paying twice for it. And Paul Salter: Mm.

1:08:32 Jake Grosswiler: I think with that it's worth it because if in doing so to take the risk and to do what's necessary to create jobs and being a true entrepreneur, you're generating opportunities for other people. And so we're needed. True entrepreneurs are needed. So Paul Salter: I'm gonna ask this question purely because I'm still a somewhat new father myself. You mentioned in some of our prep work leading into this conversation, there have been periods, those stressful periods of the entrepreneurial journey where you did have to miss some of your children's events or you were away. You were away at weeks at a time from your wife, from your children. That's time spent prioritizing the work at the expense of time with those you love the most. Talk us through those. internal decisions and even conversations with your wife a and children.

1:09:35 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I think it's Jake Grosswiler: They're not fun conversations to have all the time. I mean there is there's just you if you're gonna be an entrepreneur and you're gonna be married, you have to have a an amazing spouse and an an accepting spouse because the reality is, you know, we're selfishly doing this as entrepreneurs. we're signing up for the stress, the long nights, the travel, and so you have to get that buy in from your partner. to be able to to do the things that you need to do to be successful. I think in turn, right, is it like you also are benefited because you don't wanna not deliver on the promise. And so you're driven to find that financial success, right? Like I think success is a moving target, but you know, you you do that for a Hey babe, I'm gonna go work. I'm gonna be gone half this year. But the next three years after that, I'll get to be home consistently. Right. And so you're negotiating these things and those are the conversations that you're having, like, hey, and you gotta have buy-in from them to believe in the dream that you're trying to accomplish, right? And then you gotta do your damnedest to follow through on accomplishing those. And so it's good then it puts the pressure on you to do that. but it's also unfortunate at the things that you are sacrificing. But like I said, I think at the end of the day, the world needs entrepreneurs that are willing to do the stuff that we're willing to do so that not everybody has to do it.

1:11:28 Paul Salter: Who comes first? Your business or your wife? Jake Grosswiler: My wife always comes first. Like if you if there was a situation where I had to choose l specifically between one or the one and the other, but my wife also knows that like the business is important. And so that I'm gonna have to miss some stuff and miss some time or some activities to work on the business. but if yeah, if this if my wife told me to quit today, I would quit today. Paul Salter: You know, I I genuinely believe you. And I say that because I genuinely don't believe most people I ask that question to. And and I and I say that from a place of sincerity sincerity. And because I am someone I've been married once and divorced, like I was guilty of being dishonest, not with my wife, with myself. I would say my marriage came first, but candidly, no, it absolutely didn't. My work did. And the reason I bring that up is I think it's such a common mistake most driven entrepreneurs make is They have the well they're well meaning and intentional and saying, no, like, no, babe, you absolutely come first, but then their calendar, how they spend their time, there's such incongruency. And that's what creates the friction and disconnect more than just being honest, like, hey, babe, no, like this is who I am. I've you know, in your case, you know, very a a faith-driven mission. I have a purpose here. This is who I am, it's what I love to do, it's how I'm gonna provide and and give back in this lifetime. You need a strong supportive and understanding spouse like you described. And you're so fortunate to have found that. But I think part of the reason you found that is because you've been honest with who you are in that regard and you've been able to communicate that with her. So she didn't come into the relationship and suddenly start feeling misled. And I'm bringing this up because if you're listening and there is friction and disconnect or patterns of that in your marriage, arguments about how much you work and when you're home, when you're present, you've got to just be honest with both her and yourself about what comes first.

1:13:26 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. And then you gotta be vulnerable enough to have those conversations. Like what I I don't think my wife would ever ask me to quit because she knows that's what that would do to me. Right? And so there's also that mutual understanding like this is w what he's born to do and what he's meant to do, and so I'm gonna encourage him to do it. And if we gotta sacrifice some time together, whatever that looks like, like it's gonna be okay because the alternative to that is he's gonna be miserable. Paul Salter: Yes, dude, yes. Jake Grosswiler: Right. And so having that acceptance and her support through all of that is extremely important. And if yeah, like you said, if you're looking for a spouse or you're struggling with that, like those open, honest conversations about that, and like, hey, what is the alternative? I know you don't like this, but what's the alternative? Right? Because that can open up another avenue of conversations that maybe he or she has never thought about, right? So it's it's very important to communicate. And then that's in every area of your life, right? So Paul Salter: It but it's and it underscores kind of the crux of of part of this conversation and really where my line of work is like we know we need to communicate, but knowing and doing are two totally different things. And in between the knowing and the doing are the fears and the outdated beliefs, limiting programs and patterns that keep us stuck. So I'm happy to hear you highlight that.

1:14:51 Jake Grosswiler: Yeah. I think it's still I'm still a work in progress. By no means have I perfected communication either. I literally had a director's meeting today right before this that there was some massive miscommunications and it was a hundred percent my fault with one of my directors. I had assumed she was gonna do something and I thought I had communicated and that's not how she heard it at all. And when we went back and talked about it, like I understood exactly where she was coming from and she was a hundred percent right. I did not communicate clearly exactly what I thought. I needed from her and so and there's obviously marriages like that all the time, right? Like just little I thought you would know 'cause I did this. And that's not real. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. So yeah, there's always work to be done there. Paul Salter: What, you can't read my mind yet? Come on, we've been together fourteen years. huh. Yeah, absolutely. And you already, you already kind of addressed this, you know, how your definition of success has evolved over the years. I love some of the the way you poured into that so vulnerably. So let me ask you this. Looking back, what made some of these costs you've described worth paying?

1:16:01 Jake Grosswiler: The alternative. Like happen to work in a job that I hated or like do something that I don't wanna do for somebody that I don't wanna do it for. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, I just I can't imagine like being miserable in a job, right? Like I've I've actually worked for that might have helped me because the company I was with before, like I was frustrated with the ownership there and and wanted to do it differently. And so my wife got to experience that situation too, right? And so Yeah, I think that makes it worth it. Like to know that I'm doing things for the right reasons the way that I wanna do them, Jake Grosswiler: makes the sacrifices worth it. And again, I know that I'm helping I I think there's a big difference too, and unfortunately in our society right now, like entrepreneurship is a hot word, right? Like everybody wants to be an entrepreneurship. But there's a huge difference between being self employed and being an expert in a field and actually being an entrepreneur, right? To me, entrepreneurs hire people. You run companies. And so The sacrifices that we're making. benefit other people. We're trying to do it better. We're trying to do it more efficient. We're trying to do scale. We're trying to grow. And there's risks that comes with that. Like I said, when we do fail, and it does affect a lot more people. And we wear that. We own it. At least the good ones, right? Like you could hear the motion earlier, because it it you we wear it. And so although we failed or like made mistakes and even the companies that go under that have multiple employees, like a lot of times it's not for lack of effort. It wasn't intentional, right? Good people make have bad choices and have bad things happen. And so I think the sacrifice really is for the benefit of everyone that we're impacting. And so that's what makes it worth it.

1:18:15 Paul Salter: Knowing how heavy some of those emotions you've had to carry have been, knowing those late lonely nights away from your wife, away from your kids, would you do it all again? Jake Grosswiler: Yes, but not the same. Hindsight's twenty twenty, right? So I definitely would wouldn't avoid some of the landmines that I hit. But yeah, I would do it again. I like I s I don't know any different. Paul Salter: Yeah, yeah. Well so as you look ahead then, like what are you doing to make sure this next level of success doesn't cost you what matters most in your life?

1:19:00 Jake Grosswiler: more I'm more specific about the people that I'm doing it with. Because that's really what matters is like the character and the acceptance of high performers don't wanna work around low performers. And that's one of the lessons that I learned the hard way. And so I've got high perfor I'm surrounded by high performers right now and so it's continually trying to do that and help them achieve their goals. and if I I truly believe that if I can continue to do that, They will find success and in turn I will find success.

1:19:44 Paul Salter: There's somebody listening today, who from the outside looking in, just like you. They've got the money, the prestige, the titles, the company, the team, the wife, the kids. But inside, they're quietly suffering. They're a mess, lonely, anxious, fearful, depressed. What words do you share with him? Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, you're not on normal. we've all been there and I think the my biggest piece of advice is to find a group I would personally say that has faith. The find a faith based group. but find a group of business like minded business owners because when you get if you go to a mastermind almost of any kind and you get in a room of like minded people, you're gonna realize real quickly, like either your problems are very insignificant or someone else has already been there and done it. So you're gonna get some advice that you could truly use to like lift that weight off of you. But I can't like I can't even count how many people like when I was going through all my stuff they're like, you know, I was like, my gosh, I'm one point two million in debt and blah blah blah. And they're like, that's it? And I'm like What do you mean that's it? They're like, one point two, that's it? Like that's like two weeks worth of payroll for us. Like like, okay. you're right. Like it's it puts things in perspective, right? And I think if you can really look at things like that, it again changes that belief lid. 'Cause you're going like, Holy cow, like I feel like I'm so big and so I'm doing all these crazy things and then You get around those people and you're like, Man, I'm not even doing anything, like. So it's it's helpful. It's helpful to have those conversations, like know people are out there taking bigger risks and doing bigger things and have been through it. and that you're not normal, like or that you are n normal. You're not not normal. Like that's a normal feeling to feel like because you don't have anybody to talk to you, like we talked about earlier. You know what I mean? When you're You can't tell your employees. Like y you know I mean, like there's just certain situations where you your spouse probably isn't gonna understand it unless you're working in the business together. And even then, like it can get toxic to talk to each other. Right. And so 'cause me and my sisters are par are partners. And so like there is stuff that we know is going on, but like sometimes communicating between us is like not healthy either. Like we need to take it outside to like get a different viewpoint. And so,

1:22:31 Paul Salter: Yeah. Jake Grosswiler: Yeah, talk to I would again find a faith based group would be the first place I would go and a a faith based group of business owners. Paul Salter: Jake, thank you so much for your vulnerability, your courage, your honesty, and just showing up, really just willing to help everybody listening today. I hope that you too found this immensely valuable. Jake Grosswiler: I did, yeah. The self-reflection was great. The the show prep made me really think about things in a new perspective. Even the conversation today led me down a couple of paths that I'd never connected before, so it's super helpful.